Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 90

Thread: Fiscal Responsibility is Dead

  1. #11
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,471
    Amen (Given)
    32
    Amen (Received)
    1397
    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    So government spending bills, it is!
    Not necessarily - which is why I am against this bailout as it is being framed.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  2. #12
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    11,616
    Amen (Given)
    1581
    Amen (Received)
    3638
    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Not necessarily - which is why I am against this bailout as it is being framed.
    Sorry, but that is how it is. Almost 80% of workers say they live paycheck to paycheck, so going months and months, with no check. Isn’t an option. The choices are:

    1. Fire up the printers and start printing trillions of dollars off.
    2. Start getting everyone back to work.
    3. Do nothing and watch as the population says, “Screw you” and does what they want anyway, to avoid poverty.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  3. #13
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,471
    Amen (Given)
    32
    Amen (Received)
    1397
    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Sorry, but that is how it is. Almost 80% of workers say they live paycheck to paycheck, so going months and months, with no check. Isn’t an option. The choices are:

    1. Fire up the printers and start printing trillions of dollars off.
    2. Start getting everyone back to work.
    3. Do nothing and watch as the population says, “Screw you” and does what they want anyway, to avoid poverty.
    4. Fire up community and local organizations to provide support for those in need in the interim while getting testing in place to determine who is safe to return to work and who is not. We are doing that successfully in our community. Those who have are sharing with those who do not, including food, lodging assistance, and transportation. It has turned this pandemic into a way in which we bond with neighbors and help one another out.

    This could be an opportunity to bring out the best in everyone - instead of yet another reason for the country to stay partisan. My prediction: it will be yet another reason to stay partisan.

    ETA: In conjunction, we should also begin targeted and slow-start reopening of select, low-risk businesses monitoring health progress/impact as we go. But that would require a government that gives a hoot about testing.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  4. #14
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    11,616
    Amen (Given)
    1581
    Amen (Received)
    3638
    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    4. Fire up community and local organizations to provide support for those in need in the interim while getting testing in place to determine who is safe to return to work and who is not. We are doing that successfully in our community. Those who have are sharing with those who do not, including food, lodging assistance, and transportation. It has turned this pandemic into a way in which we bond with neighbors and help one another out.

    This could be an opportunity to bring out the best in everyone - instead of yet another reason for the country to stay partisan. My prediction: it will be yet another reason to stay partisan.
    You can only fill in so long, without a check coming in. Let me know how that works out as your neighbors start running out of money because they are not working. Do you have a few hundred k, sitting around to help a business owner pay his bills? I don’t.

    ETA: In conjunction, we should also begin targeted and slow-start reopening of select, low-risk businesses monitoring health progress/impact as we go. But that would require a government that gives a hoot about testing.
    So option 2 it is.
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 05-13-2020 at 06:06 AM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  5. Amen Mountain Man amen'd this post.
  6. #15
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,471
    Amen (Given)
    32
    Amen (Received)
    1397
    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    You can only fill in so long, without a check coming in. Let me know how that works out as your neighbors start running out of money because they are not working. Do you have a few hundred k, sitting around to help a business owner pay his bills? I don’t.
    We have a program we started in our community called "Neighbor Helping Neighbor." Those who have contribute. Those who do not, do not. Those who need come for assistance. Because they are getting that help from their neighbors, the incidence of "taking advantage" is extremely rare. It is a model we are looking to replicate in other communities.

    In this time, the donor pool has contracted, but the donations have actually increased. The demand, interestingly, has actually not risen considerably. Everyone is doing everything they can to make do with the bare minimum.

    I'm proud of that in this community. Red and blue makes no difference as we are all pitching in to help out.

    As I noted - this COULD be a time to draw the best out of all of us. Or it will just be another opportunity to be partisan and continue to bicker. I suspect the latter will be the nrom for most of the country. That is already manifest...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  7. #16
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    11,616
    Amen (Given)
    1581
    Amen (Received)
    3638
    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    We have a program we started in our community called "Neighbor Helping Neighbor." Those who have contribute. Those who do not, do not. Those who need come for assistance. Because they are getting that help from their neighbors, the incidence of "taking advantage" is extremely rare. It is a model we are looking to replicate in other communities.
    Never said anything about being taken advantage of, but how many can afford to keep this going, without income coming in?

    In this time, the donor pool has contracted, but the donations have actually increased. The demand, interestingly, has actually not risen considerably. Everyone is doing everything they can to make do with the bare minimum.
    Still doesn’t answer ‘Can people afford to do this forever, with no income coming in?’

    I'm proud of that in this community. Red and blue makes no difference as we are all pitching in to help out.

    As I noted - this COULD be a time to draw the best out of all of us. Or it will just be another opportunity to be partisan and continue to bicker. I suspect the latter will be the nrom for most of the country. That is already manifest...
    That still doesn’t answer what I asked, “can people afford to do this forever, with no income coming in?”
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  8. #17
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    United States
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    22,076
    Amen (Given)
    6582
    Amen (Received)
    8086
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimbulb View Post
    Why are you assuming Dems want to borrow that money, as opposed to funding this proposal through raised taxes?

    In general, Dems do typically want to raise taxes to pay for things they want to spend. Accusations against them of fiscal irresponsibility seem unjustified.
    Even if the Democrats confiscated 100% of the wealth from working Americans, it would be nowhere close to enough to fund all of their social programs. It's funny how they never think it's an option to cut taxes and let people keep the money they've earned.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  9. #18
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    61,927
    Amen (Given)
    13432
    Amen (Received)
    28174
    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I've seen no proposal for tax changes in any of the reports I've seen about this bill. Have you seen something I've missed?
    I would think that would be a "step two" -- "now that we have this MASSIVE debt, which, of course, was absolutely necessary, we must assure that everybody 'pay their fair share' and...."
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  10. Amen Mountain Man amen'd this post.
  11. #19
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    61,927
    Amen (Given)
    13432
    Amen (Received)
    28174
    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    We have a program we started in our community called "Neighbor Helping Neighbor." Those who have contribute. Those who do not, do not. Those who need come for assistance. Because they are getting that help from their neighbors, the incidence of "taking advantage" is extremely rare. It is a model we are looking to replicate in other communities....
    This is the model with which I am very much involved every day of my life - one KEY ingredient is accountability and trust. (ok, that's two. But, really, one.)

    If people see that money is being managed well - there are no extravagant "CEO" salaries or huge corporate offices - they're far more likely to contribute, especially if it's helping "the guy next door" as opposed to some guy across the country. (Yeah, I know, that shouldn't matter, but facts is facts)
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  12. #20
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,471
    Amen (Given)
    32
    Amen (Received)
    1397
    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Never said anything about being taken advantage of, but how many can afford to keep this going, without income coming in?
    If you check your stats, Pix, you'll find the economy is not "shutdown," despite the hype. Unemployment is at 14.5%, not 100%. That leaves 85.5% working and generating an income. Those who have are helping those who have not. Those who have not are, to the degree they can, pitching in to prepare community gardens, helping to deliver food, etc. It's a community. We help each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Still doesn’t answer ‘Can people afford to do this forever, with no income coming in?’

    That still doesn’t answer what I asked, “can people afford to do this forever, with no income coming in?”
    As long as those who have continue to share with those who have not...we can do this indefinitely. The economy shrank - it didn't disappear.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •