Trump the 'annointed one'

[oxmixmudd]

This is from a Fox News article: https://www.foxnews.com/us/trump-202...ity-church-god

As I have mentioned in the past and been railed for it, one very, very bizarre current cultural trend is for many Christians (Evangelicals especially) to view Donald Trump as somehow 'annointed of God' (for those of you not familiar with that vernacular, in a somewhat simplistic summary, King David was 'annointed' by the prophet Samuel to be King, as was King Saul. The idea is that this person is specially selected by God himself to do His will in the world in a particular thing and as such occupies a very special place in the world and in God's eyes).

I see this as very troubling for several reasons. Not the least of which is Trump's lawlessness, his complete disrespect for the sorts of moral boundary that could be reconciled with the Bible or Christian tradition (or the moral traditions of the nation as a whole), and the tendency for the acceptance of such a proclamation to produce a willingness on the part of those holding this view to excuse or overlook extremely dangerous behavior on the part of Trump or his administration. Trump becomes a man who has God behind what he does, and thus to be against Trump is then to be against God Himself. And another danger exists in that Trump, narcissist and self-idolizing man that he is, KNOWS this is how many of his followers and supporters view him. The potential for abuse is staggering.

Source: above

In a "Religion in Public" blog post on Monday titled "Trump The Anointed?" Ryan Burge, assistant professor of political science and graduate coordinator at Eastern Illinois University, and Paul Djupe, an associate professor of political science at Denison University in Ohio, called it a "phenomenon that is sweeping American religion."

"We were quite surprised by the result that 49 percent of those frequently attending worship services believed that Trump was anointed by God to be president," Bruge and Djupe told Fox News in an email. "At least until we examined the evidence that suggested religious and secular elites continue to claim that Trump has a religiously significant role to play."

They added, "Mainly limited to Republicans, we find dramatic increases in belief in Trump’s anointment when their faith is linked to politics. As threats become larger, both real and imagined, the religious significance of the presidency appears to be growing among a wide portion of the population."

Djupe, an affiliated scholar with Public Religion Research Institute, tweeted about the results compared to a similar survey of white Protestants last year. "There's a big increase in believing Trump is anointed."

© Copyright Original Source

I can't imagine a more dangerous person in American Politics to be assigned the term "God's Annointed" by a large number of the nation's Christian population.

And it makes the outcries related to Obamessiah deeply hypocritical. Indeed, whereas such statements about Obama were at best hyperbolic, these claims are as real as they can be to those making them. Those who hold such views believe deeply in the reality of God and thus believing Trump is "God's Annointed" Gives Trump almost unlimited leeway in their eyes. As mentioned above, they will also tend to as a consequence see anyone speaking against what Trump is doing or has done as in effect "Fighting against God", with all the potential for bad outcomes such beliefs can foster.

49 percent of regular churchgoers.

[Mountain Man]

And yet you and other liberals didn't have a word to say about the significant majority of people who talked about Obama in messianic terms.

But I do wonder about this: "We were quite surprised by the result that 49 percent of those frequently attending worship services believed that Trump was anointed by God to be president."

As usual, the actual question asked in the poll is not revealed to us, we're only told the interpretation of the results, which should raise red flags. For instance, I would agree that Trump was anointed by God, but only in the sense that every political leader is anointed by God, as the Bible tells us in Romans 13:1, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God."

Does this mean that I think that Donald Trump was specifically handpicked by God to be our president at this time? Of course not, and I suspect most other Christians don't believe it, either.

[seanD]

This is from a Fox News article: https://www.foxnews.com/us/trump-202...ity-church-god

As I have mentioned in the past and been railed for it, one very, very bizarre current cultural trend is for many Christians (Evangelicals especially) to view Donald Trump as somehow 'annointed of God' (for those of you not familiar with that vernacular, in a somewhat simplistic summary, King David was 'annointed' by the prophet Samuel to be King, as was King Saul. The idea is that this person is specially selected by God himself to do His will in the world in a particular thing and as such occupies a very special place in the world and in God's eyes).

I see this as very troubling for several reasons. Not the least of which is Trump's lawlessness, his complete disrespect for the sorts of moral boundary that could be reconciled with the Bible or Christian tradition (or the moral traditions of the nation as a whole), and the tendency for the acceptance of such a proclamation to produce a willingness on the part of those holding this view to excuse or overlook extremely dangerous behavior on the part of Trump or his administration. Trump becomes a man who has God behind what he does, and thus to be against Trump is then to be against God Himself. And another danger exists in that Trump, narcissist and self-idolizing man that he is, KNOWS this is how many of his followers and supporters view him. The potential for abuse is staggering.

Source: above

In a "Religion in Public" blog post on Monday titled "Trump The Anointed?" Ryan Burge, assistant professor of political science and graduate coordinator at Eastern Illinois University, and Paul Djupe, an associate professor of political science at Denison University in Ohio, called it a "phenomenon that is sweeping American religion."

"We were quite surprised by the result that 49 percent of those frequently attending worship services believed that Trump was anointed by God to be president," Bruge and Djupe told Fox News in an email. "At least until we examined the evidence that suggested religious and secular elites continue to claim that Trump has a religiously significant role to play."

They added, "Mainly limited to Republicans, we find dramatic increases in belief in Trump’s anointment when their faith is linked to politics. As threats become larger, both real and imagined, the religious significance of the presidency appears to be growing among a wide portion of the population."

Djupe, an affiliated scholar with Public Religion Research Institute, tweeted about the results compared to a similar survey of white Protestants last year. "There's a big increase in believing Trump is anointed."

© Copyright Original Source

I can't imagine a more dangerous person in American Politics to be assigned the term "God's Annointed" by a large number of the nation's Christian population.

And it makes the outcries related to Obamessiah deeply hypocritical. Indeed, whereas such statements about Obama were at best hyperbolic, these claims are as real as they can be to those making them. Those who hold such views believe deeply in the reality of God and thus believing Trump is "God's Annointed" Gives Trump almost unlimited leeway in their eyes. As mentioned above, they will also tend to as a consequence see anyone speaking against what Trump is doing or has done as in effect "Fighting against God", with all the potential for bad outcomes such beliefs can foster.

49 percent of regular churchgoers.

Yeah that's pretty dumb. But I thought it was dumb when they did it to Bush too.

[oxmixmudd]

And yet you and other liberals didn't have a word to say about the significant majority of people who talked about Obama in messianic terms.

But I do wonder about this: "We were quite surprised by the result that 49 percent of those frequently attending worship services believed that Trump was anointed by God to be president."

As usual, the actual question asked in the poll is not revealed to us, we're only told the interpretation of the results, which should raise red flags. For instance, I would agree that Trump was anointed by God, but only in the sense that every political leader is anointed by God, as the Bible tells us in Romans 13:1, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God."

Does this mean that I think that Donald Trump was specifically handpicked by God to be our president at this time? Of course not, and I suspect most other Christians don't believe it, either.

I'm just reporting what the article claims MM. And I see a great deal of supporting evidence in the Christians I know an interact with outside this forum. So it does not surprise me to see this result (49 percent is a surprise). And the typical sort of recognition of Gods purpose in Governing authority referenced in Romans has nothing to do with this so your attempt to dismiss this trend on that sort of ground is simply wrong. This is not simply recognizing God preserves order through governing authorities and so they deserve our support and prayer. This is seeing Trump as specifically anointed by God. That is a reference to one like King David, or King Saul, and that is a very, very different thing.

[Charles]

John Fea has some interesting thoughts on this topic:

If Reed and evangelicals truly love Donald Trump they should take him aside and tell him that his character, rhetoric, narcissism, and many of his policies make him ill-equipped to serve in this role. They will tell him that God is not happy with his behavior.

Why don’t the court evangelicals use their “unprecedented access” to the White House to channel the voice of God to the 45th President of the United States? https://thewayofimprovement.com/2020...trump-in-2020/

[Mountain Man]

I'm just reporting what the article claims MM.

Right, and I don't trust what the article claims for the reasons I pointed out.

And the typical sort of recognition of Gods purpose in Governing authority referenced in Romans has nothing to do with this...

Prove it.

[rogue06]

This is from a Fox News article: https://www.foxnews.com/us/trump-202...ity-church-god

As I have mentioned in the past and been railed for it, one very, very bizarre current cultural trend is for many Christians (Evangelicals especially) to view Donald Trump as somehow 'annointed of God' (for those of you not familiar with that vernacular, in a somewhat simplistic summary, King David was 'annointed' by the prophet Samuel to be King, as was King Saul. The idea is that this person is specially selected by God himself to do His will in the world in a particular thing and as such occupies a very special place in the world and in God's eyes).

I see this as very troubling for several reasons. Not the least of which is Trump's lawlessness, his complete disrespect for the sorts of moral boundary that could be reconciled with the Bible or Christian tradition (or the moral traditions of the nation as a whole), and the tendency for the acceptance of such a proclamation to produce a willingness on the part of those holding this view to excuse or overlook extremely dangerous behavior on the part of Trump or his administration. Trump becomes a man who has God behind what he does, and thus to be against Trump is then to be against God Himself. And another danger exists in that Trump, narcissist and self-idolizing man that he is, KNOWS this is how many of his followers and supporters view him. The potential for abuse is staggering.

Source: above

In a "Religion in Public" blog post on Monday titled "Trump The Anointed?" Ryan Burge, assistant professor of political science and graduate coordinator at Eastern Illinois University, and Paul Djupe, an associate professor of political science at Denison University in Ohio, called it a "phenomenon that is sweeping American religion."

"We were quite surprised by the result that 49 percent of those frequently attending worship services believed that Trump was anointed by God to be president," Bruge and Djupe told Fox News in an email. "At least until we examined the evidence that suggested religious and secular elites continue to claim that Trump has a religiously significant role to play."

They added, "Mainly limited to Republicans, we find dramatic increases in belief in Trump’s anointment when their faith is linked to politics. As threats become larger, both real and imagined, the religious significance of the presidency appears to be growing among a wide portion of the population."

Djupe, an affiliated scholar with Public Religion Research Institute, tweeted about the results compared to a similar survey of white Protestants last year. "There's a big increase in believing Trump is anointed."

© Copyright Original Source

I can't imagine a more dangerous person in American Politics to be assigned the term "God's Annointed" by a large number of the nation's Christian population.

And it makes the outcries related to Obamessiah deeply hypocritical. Indeed, whereas such statements about Obama were at best hyperbolic, these claims are as real as they can be to those making them. Those who hold such views believe deeply in the reality of God and thus believing Trump is "God's Annointed" Gives Trump almost unlimited leeway in their eyes. As mentioned above, they will also tend to as a consequence see anyone speaking against what Trump is doing or has done as in effect "Fighting against God", with all the potential for bad outcomes such beliefs can foster.

49 percent of regular churchgoers.

Folks thought that Attila the Hun was chosen by God. Doesn't mean they worshiped him. Of course with Attila he was believed to be God's scourge. But the point is that people and groups have been thought of by Christians to have been selected by God for this or that reason without anyone taking the leap you're suggesting.


As to the Obamessiah... Nothing in this country ever approached that level of unquestioning adoration and reverence for a living president (both Washington and Lincoln were effectively 'sainted' after their deaths). He was called the Messiah, compared to God and Jesus (and quite favorably to the latter). Hymns were written and sung.

[rogue06]

John Fea has some interesting thoughts on this topic:

By many accounts, while still a loutish oaf, Trump's overall behavior has improved considerably

[oxmixmudd]

Right, and I don't trust what the article claims for the reasons I pointed out.


Prove it.

If the claim Trump is 'God's annointed' were simply an extension of Romans 13, then the claim could be made of any and all civil servants from the local policeman to Trump himself, and of all past leaders like Bill Clinton, or Obama - and no special recognition of the fact is needed, or all such leaders should be so singled out (need I point out they were not?). The fact Trump is singled out proclaimed "God's annointed" over others, as something unique and special, different from all other such holders of authority in our nation, is all the 'proof' that is needed. Secondarily, Romans 13 does not confer anything special like the Biblical concept of 'annointing', it simply encourages the recognition of their purpose and the fact God is the one that allows them to have their power. Annointing refers to selection, being set appart, holding a special place above others.

If one observes the rhetoric of those making these proclamations, there is nothing 'normal' about it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...lly-king-jesus

https://www.texasmonthly.com/article...bert-jeffress/

https://www.al.com/living/2018/08/al...church_to.html

https://www.salon.com/2019/08/22/eva...ys-it-himself/

This sort of rhetoric from Christian leaders has led to a plethora of articles about it, pro and con.

But this is not just the typical 'pray for our leaders' that comes from Romans 13. This is "Trump is God's anointed'

And there is not a Christian on this board that should not recognize the a fore mentioned Messianic connotations of such a phrase.

[oxmixmudd]

Folks thought that Attila the Hun was chosen by God. Doesn't mean they worshiped him. Of course with Attila he was believed to be God's scourge. But the point is that people and groups have been thought of by Christians to have been selected by God for this or that reason without anyone taking the leap you're suggesting.


As to the Obamessiah... Nothing in this country ever approached that level of unquestioning adoration and reverence for a living president (both Washington and Lincoln were effectively 'sainted' after their deaths). He was called the Messiah, compared to God and Jesus (and quite favorably to the latter). Hymns were written and sung.

I already addressed the Obamessiah hypocricy of this. And to deny the term "Trump is God's annointed" has special meaning in Christian or Judeo-Christian terms is to deny the entire history of the Prophets and the Messianic prophecies. That term "God's annointed" is no lightweight term, and it can not be conferred upon anyone without serious theological consequences. The denials from you and MM as to the serious nature of such a claim either point to a massive ignorance of your own faith, or they are wholly disingenuous.

[rogue06]

I already addressed the Obamessiah hypocricy of this. And to deny the term "Trump is God's annointed" has special meaning in Christian or Judeo-Christian terms is to deny the entire history of the Prophets and the Messianic prophecies. That term "God's annointed" is no lightweight term, and it can not be conferred upon anyone without serious theological consequences. The denials from you and MM as to the serious nature of such a claim either point to a massive ignorance of your own faith, or they are wholly disingenuous.

Again, many people have been called chosen/selected/anointed/picked by God, but that doesn't automatically mean they are to be adored. Sometimes it's the exact opposite.

Sort of like Time magazine's Man-of-the-Year award. Very often it is anything but an honor in spite of many people mistakenly thinking getting named is supposed to be an honor.

And again, compared to the quite literal worship offered to Obama... Perhaps you need a referesher:

Um...



Apparently it is yet again time to remind folks just how much adoring veneration and reverence was given to Obama by his supporters.

• Like when Newsweek editor Evan Thomas was doing when he declared on MSNBC's "Hardball" to host Chris Matthews (who notoriously once said that he felt a “thrill up his leg” after saying "This is bigger than Kennedy. ... This is the New Testament," while covering then-Senator Barack Obama): "I mean in a way Obama’s standing above the country, above – above the world, he’s sort of God." Sort of God.

• And when Ezra Klein gushed about Obama in The American Prospect that,
  
  
  "He is not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh, over color, over despair. The other great leaders I’ve heard guide us towards a better politics, but Obama is, at his best, able to call us back to our highest selves, to the place where America exists as a glittering ideal, and where we, its honored inhabitants, seem capable of achieving it, and thus of sharing in its meaning and transcendence.

• And of course there's when Mark Morford, columnist and culture critic for the San Francisco Chronicle and SFGate.com, proclaimed that Obama "isn’t really one of us" and how
  
  
  "many spiritually advanced people I know (not coweringly religious, mind you, but deeply spiritual) identify Obama as a Lightworker, that rare kind of attuned being who has the ability to lead us not merely to new foreign policies or health care plans or whatnot, but who can actually help usher in a new way of being on the planet, of relating and connecting and engaging with this bizarre earthly experiment. These kinds of people actually help us evolve. They are philosophers and peacemakers of a very high order, and they speak not just to reason or emotion, but to the soul."

• Charlie Rangel (D-NY) would go to churches in his Congressional district in Harlem declaring that "God sent us Barack Obama."

• In her The Gospel According to Apostle Barack, released right before the 2012 election , Florida A&M professor Barbara A. Thompson equates Barack Obama to Jesus, and proclaims that his God-given mission is to bring "heaven on earth."

• Or how in a September, 2008 opinion essay in the Smith College Sophian titled "I Will Follow Him: Obama As My Personal Jesus," associate editor Maggie Mertens proclaimed "Obama is my Jesus." She went on to say
  
  While you may be overtly religious and find this to be idol-worshipping, or may be overtly politically correct and just know that everything in that sentence could be found offensive, I'm afraid it's true anyway.
  
  She went on to say she was in the "middle of a bleak, hopeless period of my life" but then
  
  Then I found my miracle. Stumbling through my hopeless world, afraid to turn to anyone with my political questions of morality, my concerns about the afterlife of the country I called home, a voice spoke to me. Barack Obama bore to me his testimony...
  
  She continued writing about how "I came to Jesus/Obama" and concluded
  
  I've officially been saved, and soon, whether they like it or not, the rest of the country will be too. I will follow him, all the way to the White House, and I'll be standing there in our nation's capital in January 2009, when Barack Obama is inaugurated as the 44th president of the United States of America. In the name of Obama, Amen.

• Or how on November 25th, 2012 at the Soul Train Awards program, televised worldwide on the BET network, Jamie Foxx whipped up the large crowd attending the event to a hand-waving, jumping-up-and-down frenzy by shouting, "First of all, give an honor to God and our Lord and Savior Barack Obama! Barack Obama!"
  
  
  

• Or how Denmark's oldest largest newspaper Politiken on December 28, 2009 ran an editorial titled "Obama Greater Than Jesus: The U.S. president - the practical saviour of our times" It said, "He comes from humble beginnings and defends the weak and vulnerable, because he can identify himself with their conditions. And no we are not thinking of Jesus Christ, whose birthday has just been celebrated - but rather the President of the United States Barack Hussein Obama."
  
  The newspaper stated that if a comparison were to be made between Jesus and Obama, "it would, of course, inevitably be to Obama's advantage." And this: "Obama is, of course, greater than Jesus - if we have to play that absurd Christmas game."

• Or how Nation of Islam's Louis Farrahkan proclaimed Obama was the Messiah
  
  
  
  
  
  "You are the instruments that God is going to use to bring about universal change, and that is why Barack has captured the youth. And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn't care anything about. That's a sign. When the Messiah speaks, the youth will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking."
  
  
  
  [ATTACH=CONFIG]44646[/ATTACH]
  Notice what's attached to the podium

• And let's not forget Barbara Walters saying how "they" thought Obama was the Messiah
  
  
  

A poster that was sold at the Democratic National Convention in 2012 displayed the head of Obama, which faded into a graphic of an open Bible with the headline "Prophecy Fulfilled."

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44647[/ATTACH]

To mark Obama’s 100th day of presidency, artist Michael D'Antuono unveiled a painting that he had crafted called "The Truth" which depicted Obama in the oval office wearing a crown of thorns and raising his arms as if on the cross.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44648[/ATTACH]

Depictions like this were hardly uncommon. Here is another called "The Hope can be a Cross" from noted artist and fashion designer Angelo Cruciani and displayed at Milan's trendy Galleria Voghera 11:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44649[/ATTACH]

And a couple covers from Newsweek:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44650[/ATTACH]
God of all things

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44651[/ATTACH]
Second Coming

The fact is, the above exemplified the attitude that a substantial portion of his supporters believed. As Michelle Obama put it, "We have an amazing story to tell. This president has brought us out of the dark and into the light" (Matthew 4:16; cf. Micah 7:8)

And of course Obama himself intoned that the earth itself was reacting positively to his merely winning the Democrat Party's nomination (that "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.") so profound was his presence. Moreover he was fond of declaring that "a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama" like he did at the Lebanon Opera House, New Hampshire in 2008.

And speaking of lights shining down from on high and resulting in epiphanies... Jonathan Alter the self-described liberal/progressive journalist, columnist and senior editor for Newsweek magazine for nearly 30 years and a mainstay at NBC for over 20 years related the following in his 2010 book The Promise: President Obama, Year One:

Rabbi David Saperstein, reading from Psalms in English and Hebrew, noticed from the altar that the good men and women of the congregation that day, including the Bidens and other dignitaries, had not yet stood. Finally Bishop Vashti McKenzie of the African Methodist Church asked that everyone rise. At that moment Saperstein saw something from his angle of vision: "If I had seen it in a movie I would have groaned and said, 'Give me a break. That's so trite.'" A beam of morning light shown [sic] through the stained-glass windows and illuminated the president-elect's face. Several of the clergy and choir on the altar who also saw it marveled afterward about the presence of the Divine.

Finally, there is the 2002 song "American Prayer" written by Bono of U2 and Dave Stewart of the Eurythmics that the latter did a version dedicated to Obama featuring a slew of celebutards like Forest Whitaker, Jason Alexander, Whoopi Goldberg, Margaret Cho and Joan Baez.

No. We don't agree.

I actually have more but that's currently on an external hard drive.

[oxmixmudd]

Again, many people have been called chosen/selected/anointed/picked by God, but that doesn't automatically mean they are to be adored. Sometimes it's the exact opposite.

Sort of like Time magazine's Man-of-the-Year award. Very often it is anything but an honor in spite of many people mistakenly thinking getting named is supposed to be an honor.

And again, compared to the quite literal worship offered to Obama... Perhaps you need a referesher:

I actually have more but that's currently on an external hard drive.

I predicted this would send you one an Obama Tirade ...

But thats not the point, and this is my thread. So - let's stay on topic please, which is not directly Trump nor Obama, but the Christian community escalating Trump to the status of "Annointed one" and what that means about that same Christian community. If the Christian community had done the same for Obama, then it would be fair game I suppose.

[Mountain Man]

If the claim Trump is 'God's annointed' were simply an extension of Romans 13, then the claim could be made of any and all civil servants from the local policeman to Trump himself, and of all past leaders like Bill Clinton, or Obama - and no special recognition of the fact is needed, or all such leaders should be so singled out (need I point out they were not?). The fact Trump is singled out proclaimed "God's annointed" over others, as something unique and special, different from all other such holders of authority in our nation, is all the 'proof' that is needed. Secondarily, Romans 13 does not confer anything special like the Biblical concept of 'annointing', it simply encourages the recognition of their purpose and the fact God is the one that allows them to have their power. Annointing refers to selection, being set appart, holding a special place above others.

If one observes the rhetoric of those making these proclamations, there is nothing 'normal' about it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...lly-king-jesus

https://www.texasmonthly.com/article...bert-jeffress/

https://www.al.com/living/2018/08/al...church_to.html

https://www.salon.com/2019/08/22/eva...ys-it-himself/

This sort of rhetoric from Christian leaders has led to a plethora of articles about it, pro and con.

But this is not just the typical 'pray for our leaders' that comes from Romans 13. This is "Trump is God's anointed'

And there is not a Christian on this board that should not recognize the a fore mentioned Messianic connotations of such a phrase.

In other words, your "proof" is nothing more than a heaping helping of confirmation bias.

[Mountain Man]

I already addressed the Obamessiah hypocricy of this.

Yes, with an appeal to special pleading.

[mossrose]

Again, many people have been called chosen/selected/anointed/picked by God, but that doesn't automatically mean they are to be adored. Sometimes it's the exact opposite.

Sort of like Time magazine's Man-of-the-Year award. Very often it is anything but an honor in spite of many people mistakenly thinking getting named is supposed to be an honor.

And again, compared to the quite literal worship offered to Obama... Perhaps you need a referesher:

I actually have more but that's currently on an external hard drive.

That is pure and absolute blasphemy against God and Christ. Disgusting.