Originally posted by Mountain Man
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Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.
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My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostAgain, conveniently leaving out key facts, Jim. Why?My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThe point of my post was to counter MM's claim I was speculating BTC when I was simply recounting the facts. The facts are: Two white men grabbed their guns and chased down a black man who was seen on a property under construction, and in the process of that confrontation, the black man was killed. I did not offer an opinion as to why they chased him down except for what they themselves have admitted - he was on the property of a house under construction.
but you aren't complaining about that - are you. You want me to HIDE the fact this was two white men chasing down a black man - right?
If I hide that fact, then I'm being fair, is that how it goes? Is it better if I hide their races? Are you more or less inclined to think the fellow killed was treated unjustly if I hide the races? Are you more or less inclined to think the fellow killed was 'up to no good' if I hide their races? Are you more or less inclined to thinking the shooters are guilty if I hide their races?
Ask yourself those questions in private BTC, after you get over your annoyance with me for making the point. Just between you and God. And keep your answers to yourself and deal with them quietly so the roar of this site's unholy drone does not keep you from hearing God's still small voice and keep you from dealing with the truth about what may sit just below the surface.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostAnd just because you claim they are not racist doesn't make them less racist.
One very notable pathology is a form of argument that, reduced to essence, runs like this: “Your refusal to acknowledge that you are guilty of {sin,racism,sexism, homophobia,oppression…} confirms that you are guilty of {sin,racism,sexism, homophobia,oppression…}.” I’ve been presented with enough instances of this recently that I’ve decided that it needs a name. I call this general style of argument “kafkatrapping”, and the above the Model A kafkatrap. In this essay, I will show that the kafkatrap is a form of argument that is so fallacious and manipulative that those subjected to it are entitled to reject it based entirely on the form of the argument, without reference to whatever particular sin or thoughtcrime is being alleged. I will also attempt to show that kafkatrapping is so self-destructive to the causes that employ it that change activists should root it out of their own speech and thoughts.
My reference, of course, is to Franz Kafka’s “The Trial”, in which the protagonist Josef K. is accused of crimes the nature of which are never actually specified, and enmeshed in a process designed to degrade, humiliate, and destroy him whether or not he has in fact committed any crime at all. The only way out of the trap is for him to acquiesce in his own destruction; indeed, forcing him to that point of acquiescence and the collapse of his will to live as a free human being seems to be the only point of the process, if it has one at all.
This is almost exactly the way the kafkatrap operates in religious and political argument. Real crimes – actual transgressions against flesh-and-blood individuals – are generally not specified. The aim of the kafkatrap is to produce a kind of free-floating guilt in the subject, a conviction of sinfulness that can be manipulated by the operator to make the subject say and do things that are convenient to the operator’s personal, political, or religious goals. Ideally, the subject will then internalize these demands, and then become complicit in the kafkatrapping of others.
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2122
You can't point to a single racist thing I've said. Instead you just toss out a vague accusation that is impossible to disprove and expect me to bow at the altar of political correctness and repent of my unspecified sins.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostI suggest you go back and re-read your posts in this thread.
Why not say "Two right handed men chased a left handed one"? Why include their races unless you think that they matter?
Unless you think their races were a contributing factor in the killing, which you have no evidence it was, then it is pointless to bring it up except to make it a point.
Your passive aggressive drivel is amusing Jim.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostIt is in this case BTC.
And it's not hypocrisy - the reality of white oppression of black people is not a fantasy BTC.
It is a centuries long reality. A reality that still exists.
It exists in gerrymandered voting districts that focus the black vote on a small handful of representatives,
in organized campaigns to prevent poor black voters from getting to the polls.
It exists in discrimination in housing and neighborhoods, in differential treatment by law enforcement, in the legacies of poverty and violence, in pay disparities, and education. A black child is more likely to go hungry, less likely to get a good education, more likely to die by gunshot, more likely to end up in crime, less likely to be payed as well as his white counterpart. This is REALITY BTC, not fantasy. And it is something that will continue as long as we continue to pretend these realities are somehow 'their fault'. The legacy of slavery and racism continues BTC. It's more subtle, but it is still there, and only God knows what it will take to change it. But ignoring it or pretending it does not exist most certainly will let it live on.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostBecause they do matter, even though it is in your interests to deny it.
We all know race was a factor BTC. It's just that some people want to pretend it was not.
Don't miscast genuine concern for 'passive aggressive'. God's voice is the still small voice. To hear Him and what He has to say to you on this, you need to stop thinking about how much you want to stick me with your next barb and get quiet and ask yourself the questions I just asked. Be honest with yourself, and be honest with God. I'm saying that for your good BTC, not mine.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI'm not the one claiming you left out 'key facts' without defining what those 'key facts' are BTC.
1) That crimes, both reported and unreported, had recently occurred in the neighborhood
2) That the police had previously asked the father to get involved and asked the neighbor to contact the father
3) That detaining him on suspicious activity is not illegal
4) That the video evidence clearly shows the actual physical confrontation was initiated by Arbery
Questions that I believe still need answering
1) There is no video evidence of the truck passing in front of the house. How did they know Arbery was the one who had entered and exited the construction site?
2) At what point were they notified, and by whom? The neighbor says he didn't. The homeowner says he didn't.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostThen you should call the prosecutor and tell him you have proof that this was a racially motivated incident. Call the local news while you are at it, and tell them you have irrefutable facts that the entire situation was based on the race of the victim. And please let me know what time you will be on so I can laugh hysterically at your moonbat routine.
"We all know" should hold up in court just fine.
First off, how dare you patronize me. You have no idea what I pray about and for. That I refuse to assign a racial element to this until it is proven to be racial is in no way an indication of my prayer life. Second, it's YOU who should ask God if you are making unfounded assumptions because you "just know"...My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostDon't miscast genuine concern for 'passive aggressive'. God's voice is the still small voice. To hear Him and what He has to say to you on this, you need to stop thinking about how much you want to stick me with your next barb and get quiet and ask yourself the questions I just asked. Be honest with yourself, and be honest with God. I'm saying that for your good BTC, not mine.
I used to find your blatant hypocrisy shocking, but now I think I would be shocked if you weren't hypocritical.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostHow dare I what BTC? Ask you to prayerfully consider some introspective questions? How dare I assume you would have the integrity to actually go ask God if you were missing something here? Really? Rest assured I do not ask those questions without realizing I need to do exactly the same thing.
Originally posted by OxI'm saying that for your good BTC, not mine.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
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My comments focus on MM's overall defense, If you think I'm going to go through every detail in every post then you are living in a fantasy land.
As for your 'key facts' that I 'left out':
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...s-not-n1205581
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostOmitted Facts from your analysis:
1) That crimes, both reported and unreported, had recently occurred in the neighborhood
2) That the police had previously asked the father to get involved and asked the neighbor to contact the father
3) That detaining him on suspicious activity is not illegal
4) That the video evidence clearly shows the actual physical confrontation was initiated by Arbery
Questions that I believe still need answering
1) There is no video evidence of the truck passing in front of the house. How did they know Arbery was the one who had entered and exited the construction site?
2) At what point were they notified, and by whom? The neighbor says he didn't. The homeowner says he didn't.
Exactly the reasons your point 3 above simply is not true. Without 1 AND 2 above, these are just rogue actors shooting a man with no justification or cause.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostThen you lied above when you said :
If I was trying to get you to think about it for my benefit, I would be trying to get you to join my way of thinking so things would be easier for me. But I know the chance you'll actually consider those questions is low, and that you are most likely going to berate me for asking them as you are now, and that is NOT to my benefit at all. But IF you can find it in yourself to do a little soul searching on the topic - it would in fact be to YOUR benefit. The best thing for me bill would have been NOT to put those sentences in my post. And I knew that as I wrote that text. I did not write those words for myself, but for you.
At the same time, anytime one person asks another person to do some soul searching, that person should be ready to do the same. So I'm trying to make the point that in asking you to do that soul searching, I'm not trying to say I may not need to do the same thing.Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-19-2020, 02:00 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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There's actually an interesting question here. If three guys in two vans have been pursuing you, and one of them drives up ahead of you and cuts you off and someone steps out of it with a shotgun in a threatening manner. Do you have the right to self-defense in that moment?
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostThere's actually an interesting question here. If three guys in two vans have been pursuing you, and one of them drives up ahead of you and cuts you off and someone steps out of it with a shotgun in a threatening manner. Do you have the right to self-defense in that moment?"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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