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Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.

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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I would like for sane rational people to contemplate the following statement....

    "Georgia, OTOH, especially places like Brunswick, are still bastions of overt racism, which is where this killing occurred."

    If a black friend you truly cared about said, "hey, I'm gonna go for a jog, and stop by that house under construction over in Brunswick- you know - that bastion of overt racism, then go running down the street....."
    Now, remember, you really CARE about this person... would you suggest that might not be the best idea?

    ESPECIALLY when your black friend, whom you love, ALREADY had run-ins with the police there....

    And, AGAIN, from personal experience, I had encouraged my own daughter to avoid places I knew were putting her life in jeopardy (bars, crack houses, associating with known criminals), and because I LOVED her, I did my best to encourage her not to put herself in those situations.

    If she were black, and I knew she was going to "go for a jog" in "places like Brunswick, [which] are still bastions of overt racism", and she already had run-ins with the police there, I would do my best to stop her.

    Now, GOD FORBID she be run down by racist bigots and killed --- if she HAD been, would I be a terrible dad to feel guilty for not doing more to try to stop her from doing something so risky?
    And I could argue all day that she SHOULD be able to run anywhere she wants, but would I want her to avoid "places like Brunswick, [which] are still bastions of overt racism"?

    And, again, I PRAISE GOD that my daughter finally "came to herself" (that's what we had been praying for) and is on the right track, even though nearly a half dozen of her "running buddies" from those days were murdered or overdosed, she - to this day - still thanks me for wise counsel.

    Now, if this is your own child, or friend, or relative, and you had true love, you would do what I did.

    If you're only here to rage and make psychotic false accusations, you'd say I was "blaming the victim".

    AND, for the umpteenZILLIONTH time..... there is absolutely no justification for Arbery's death. Zero, Nada, Zilch - NONE.
    But he could actually be alive today, if only....
    I'll take any remaining requests that I 'leave you alone' as simple diversions devoid of any real meaning.

    It should have been safe for Arbery to run there - even assuming there is more overt racism in Brunswick Georgia than other places in the US. For one thing, I was at least partially an integrated mostly white neighborhood. There were a few black home owners there. On a scale of ostensibly safe place to run - it was likely fairly high. The fact that there is more covert racism in Georgia hopefully doesn't translate into a level as high has all mostly white neighborhoods are still too dangerous for black people they can't jog there.

    So truly - let's get real CP. Telling him not to go jog there is not a solution. It's an evidence of racism. And if it truly could be expected that in that neighborhood or in all white neighborhoods there lurk men that will hunt down a black Jogger, then indeed, it is time for change.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      You're being elevated to Apostle status - run with it!
      Thorn in the side, or pain in the...
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Thorn in the side, or pain in the...
        Well, I wasn't gonna go there.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Chaotic Void View Post
          This isn't an example of what you're looking for... earlier in Luke 9 Jesus gave The Twelve- his closest Disciples- EXPLICIT instructions on how to conduct themselves on an unwelcoming community. Jesus' rebuke to James and John is in response to their desire to directly violate his initial, very blatant, commands. This is less, "You're participating in Evil without even knowing it," and more, "You IDIOTS! I told you how to this Day 1, knock it off." It's like being a Supervisor in a restaurant kitchen and taking a dump without washing your hands levels of screwing up.



          This reminds me of all the Fundies, back in the day, who claimed you could find Satanic Imagery throughout American Culture (comic books, movies, video games, etc). Except now, instead of finding the phone number of Lucifer's personal cocaine dealer by playing a music single backwards, you can apparently find White Supremacist Propaganda just about everywhere you look. A, "Same Pig, Different Shade of Lipstick," situation... I wasn't kissing Porky-in-Drag back then, I sure as heck ain't gonna do it now.

          Yes, there was some Satanic Imagery used in culture back then, just as there is racism around today... it's just not as prevalent as some of the fear-mongers would have people believe.



          I was only basing this on your actions earlier in this thread and elsewhere.

          I won't dispute that there are victim-blaming jackasses in every group. But accusing folks- especially without proper substantiation- of racism and/or victim-blaming when they're trying to get their facts straight before coming to a conclusion doesn't look good on your part. As I said earlier, I think Arbery's death was racially motivated because we have a witness saying that certain slurs were uttered. As for George Floyd? I don't believe we have grounds at this time to conclude the officer killed him due to racism. Now, concluding his murder is evidence of unchecked police brutality and rampant union corruption, on the other hand...



          I'll tell you the same thing that I tell people who expect me to support Trump, or become a Dispensationalist, or embrace Communism: "You best up your game."
          It's been about a week, ox... Just wondering if you missed this post when you were replying to people in this thread over the past few pages.
          Have You Touched Grass Today? If Not, Please Do.

          Comment


          • Cross posting here, as it belongs here. All three men, including "Roddie" who recorded the whole thing, are now all indicted for Felony Murder.

            https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ce/3253338001/
            Source: USA Today - Three Georgia men indicted on felony murder, malice charges in Ahmaud Arbery case

            Three men in Georgia have been indicted on murder charges in the death of Ahmaud Arbery, a prosecutor announced Wednesday.

            Cobb County District Attorney Joyette Holmes said in a news conference outside the Glynn County Courthouse that a grand jury indicted Travis McMichael, Gregory McMichael and William “Roddie” Bryan Jr. on charges that include felony murder and malice.

            “This is another positive step, another great step for finding justice for Ahmaud, for finding justice for this family and the community beyond,” Holmes said.

            © Copyright Original Source

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
              Cross posting here, as it belongs here. All three men, including "Roddie" who recorded the whole thing, are now all indicted for Felony Murder.

              https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ce/3253338001/
              Source: USA Today - Three Georgia men indicted on felony murder, malice charges in Ahmaud Arbery case

              Three men in Georgia have been indicted on murder charges in the death of Ahmaud Arbery, a prosecutor announced Wednesday.

              Cobb County District Attorney Joyette Holmes said in a news conference outside the Glynn County Courthouse that a grand jury indicted Travis McMichael, Gregory McMichael and William “Roddie” Bryan Jr. on charges that include felony murder and malice.

              “This is another positive step, another great step for finding justice for Ahmaud, for finding justice for this family and the community beyond,” Holmes said.

              © Copyright Original Source

              It's good that things are moving along and charges are being pressed. My only question right now is if they'll be able to make those charges stick. Hopefully the prosecution isn't over-playing their hand, because that could backfire horribly.
              Have You Touched Grass Today? If Not, Please Do.

              Comment


              • I think the attorney has staked out an uphill battle. Unless there are other relevant facts that haven't been made public, I think that case going to be a very hard case to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. A manslaughter charge would been a much easier to defend in court.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Chaotic Void View Post
                  It's been about a week, ox... Just wondering if you missed this post when you were replying to people in this thread over the past few pages.
                  No, I just didnt see any evidence you understood or even tried to understand my points. Not that you're the only one, but I just opted out of yet another discussion with a person that is only interested in finding creative ways to tell me how much they despise what I am saying.

                  I disagree with your assessment of Christ's rebuke to James and John as well. Whether He'd told them something earlier that they should have understood is actually even more supportive of my point, int that many here have the benefit of years of Bible study yet still don't seem to get some of the more basic fundamentals. But either way, they thought they were making a suggestion that Christ would have approved of, and found out they were actually asking to do something that had its roots in what Satan would want to do. Nothing changes in terms of how I'm using the example.
                  Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-25-2020, 02:07 PM.
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    No, I just didnt see any evidence you understood or even tried to understand my points. Not that you're the only one, but I just opted out of yet another discussion with a person that is only interested in finding creative ways to tell me how much they despise what I am saying.
                    So I'm not worth discussing things with, but yet you'll spend several pages frothing at the mouth like you're Jorge in the NatSci Forum towards the usual suspects?

                    Press X To Doubt.jpg

                    I disagree with your assessment of Christ's rebuke to James and John as well. Whether He'd told them something earlier that they should have understood is actually even more supportive of my point, int that many here have the benefit of years of Bible study yet still don't seem to get some of the more basic fundamentals. But either way, they thought they were making a suggestion that Christ would have approved of, and found out they were actually asking to do something that had its roots in what Satan would want to do. Nothing changes in terms of how I'm using the example.
                    Speaking of not grasping the fundamentals... You're reading Satan into this. By this same logic, I could accuse you of playing into Satan's hands by slandering and accusing people of Racism and Victim-Blaming without proof.

                    As for the rest of my post, you know what? I'm still legitimately interested in a discussion, and I'm feeling generous so I'll do some of the work for you. Heck, I'll make it fun and turn it into a game of Mad Libs!

                    And yes, if you believe that sentence and this next part sound condescending towards you... Good news. You're right.

                    Originally posted by Chaotic Void View Post
                    This reminds me of all the Fundies, back in the day, who claimed you could find Satanic Imagery throughout American Culture (comic books, movies, video games, etc). Except now, instead of finding the phone number of Lucifer's personal cocaine dealer by playing a music single backwards, you can apparently find White Supremacist Propaganda just about everywhere you look. A, "Same Pig, Different Shade of Lipstick," situation... I wasn't kissing Porky-in-Drag back then, I sure as heck ain't gonna do it now.

                    Yes, there was some Satanic Imagery used in culture back then, just as there is racism around today... it's just not as prevalent as some of the fear-mongers would have people believe.
                    "No, This is not a valid comparison because [Insert Reasons why this equivalency is bogus]."

                    I was only basing this on your actions earlier in this thread and elsewhere.

                    I won't dispute that there are victim-blaming jackasses in every group. But accusing folks- especially without proper substantiation- of racism and/or victim-blaming when they're trying to get their facts straight before coming to a conclusion doesn't look good on your part. As I said earlier, I think Arbery's death was racially motivated because we have a witness saying that certain slurs were uttered. As for George Floyd? I don't believe we have grounds at this time to conclude the officer killed him due to racism. Now, concluding his murder is evidence of unchecked police brutality and rampant union corruption, on the other hand...
                    "Actually, [Insert Tweb Username(s) here] are in fact racists and/or victim blamers because [Insert Actual Statements- preferably sourced with the post- Made by aforementioned Users here on Theologyweb that are Racist and/or Blaming the Victim]"

                    BONUS REBUTTAL: "Also, we have reason to believe George Floyd's killing was Racially Motivated Because [Insert Reasons Here]"

                    I'll tell you the same thing that I tell people who expect me to support Trump, or become a Dispensationalist, or embrace Communism: "You best up your game."
                    "My Game Has been Upped. Now it's your Turn."

                    See, I even did that last one all for you. No blanks necessary.
                    Last edited by Chaotic Void; 06-25-2020, 11:35 PM.
                    Have You Touched Grass Today? If Not, Please Do.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Chaotic Void View Post
                      So I'm not worth discussing things with, but yet you'll spend several pages frothing at the mouth like you're Jorge in the NatSci Forum towards the usual suspects?

                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]46020[/ATTACH]



                      Speaking of not grasping the fundamentals... You're reading Satan into this. By this same logic, I could accuse you of playing into Satan's hands by slandering and accusing people of Racism and Victim-Blaming without proof.

                      As for the rest of my post, you know what? I'm still legitimately interested in a discussion, and I'm feeling generous so I'll do some of the work for you. Heck, I'll make it fun and turn it into a game of Mad Libs!

                      And yes, if you believe that sentence and this next part sound condescending towards you... Good news. You're right.



                      "No, This is not a valid comparison because [Insert Reasons why this equivalency is bogus]."



                      "Actually, [Insert Tweb Username(s) here] are in fact racists and/or victim blamers because [Insert Actual Statements- preferably sourced with the post- Made by aforementioned Users here on Theologyweb that are Racist and/or Blaming the Victim]"

                      BONUS REBUTTAL: "Also, we have reason to believe George Floyd's killing was Racially Motivated Because [Insert Reasons Here]"



                      "My Game Has been Upped. Now it's your Turn."

                      See, I even did that last one all for you. No blanks necessary.
                      Not playing your game. Sorry. If you can find it in you to approach the topic without each word frothing with disdain we can have a discussion, otherwise you can continue discussing this with yourself.
                      Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-26-2020, 12:50 AM.
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        Not playing your game. Sorry. If you can find it in you to approach the topic without each word frothing with disdain we can have a discussion, otherwise you can continue discussing this with yourself.
                        Typical Glass Cannon. You can sure dish it like it's no big deal, but the moment you have to take it you cave.
                        Have You Touched Grass Today? If Not, Please Do.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          I think the attorney has staked out an uphill battle. Unless there are other relevant facts that haven't been made public, I think that case going to be a very hard case to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. A manslaughter charge would been a much easier to defend in court.
                          At this point it depends on the fine details that'll be presented and argued for in the court, and of course also on the jury. There's not much that can be done at this point but wait and see.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            At this point it depends on the fine details that'll be presented and argued for in the court, and of course also on the jury. There's not much that can be done at this point but wait and see.
                            EGGzackly.....

                            And, as I have said over and over --- when information is presented in court, it will be under oath and subject to cross examination.

                            Many of the "he said / she said" items come out quite differently there, or not at all.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              At this point it depends on the fine details that'll be presented and argued for in the court, and of course also on the jury. There's not much that can be done at this point but wait and see.
                              And there is going to be tremendous pressure on the jury to render a "social justice" judgment.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                And there is going to be tremendous pressure on the jury to render a "social justice" judgment.
                                I have seen that up front and personal, and it's ugly! The judge in the case I reference was quite obviously doing something he KNEW FULL WELL was not proper jurisprudence --- he was sweating profusely and his hands were shaking as he pronounced a maximum penalty and said "because we need to make an example".

                                He still can't look me eye to eye to this very day. Coward!
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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