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Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Right, so you're just guessing and/or making up stuff to fit your narrative. Let's stick with the facts, okay?
    Not okay, if there were other 911 calls it would a matter of public record and highly relevant to the case. The owner nor anyone else mentions other calls.

    Your grasping at frog hairs.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      Splitting frog hairs to justify your agenda.
      A lot of people have been declared "not guilty" on the basis of "hair splitting". "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is a deliberately high hurdle.

      The one fact that I keep coming back to in my mind -- and this is one that nobody can reasonably dispute -- is that no shots were fired until after Arbery attacked the man on the ground. If it was their intent to shoot a black guy then they had plenty of opportunity to do so as he approached. It was only as he was trying to wrestle the gun away that shots were fired, and I'm not even certain whether it was deliberate or simply a result of the struggle. My gut tells me that this is going to be the key to the whole case unless it can be proven that the McMichaels broke the law prior to that point, in which case, they're going to jail.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • I'm ready to do some civil discourse, Jim. You up for it?

        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        As to the idea people dont just stop for water at a property. While I'm not comfortable doing that,
        Most people would not be comfortable doing that. And, quite honestly, if I were a black man in a white neighborhood, I think I most CERTAINLY wouldn't be comfortable doing it.

        I've been on rides with people that were.
        I can't even imagine anybody "on a ride" saying, "hey, stop here, lemme go into that home under construction to get a drink".

        Again, all this hullabaloo that says arbery must have been up to no good is just racist garbage.
        I don't find anything at all that even suggests he was 'up to no good'. In fact, I've mentioned that he had been the victim of what I consider police abuse in the past in that same area.

        He did not need to be up to no good.
        It could simply have been really bad judgment, Jim.

        There is nothing about what he was doing that can justify to any degree three men chasing him down armed with a shotgun and a sidearm. Nothing.
        Agreed!

        And this constant need to paint him as in the wrong is nothing more that cultural racism. It would not be happening if arbery was a white man.
        To be clear - I am not trying to justify anything, but I AM opposing unfounded speculation and conjecture. If you're up to civil discourse, I could expound on this, but if you're not ready, just say so, and I'll go back to no more interaction with you.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          Not okay, if there were other 911 calls it would a matter of public record and highly relevant to the case. The owner nor anyone else mentions other calls.

          Your grasping at frog hairs.
          Actually, he's making stuff up. If there are no reported 911 calls, then there is no data to wait for on that issue.

          Racism takes on many forms. With MM it takes on the narrative Arbery must have been up to no good so if we just wait long enough well eventually find out what it was.

          He then calls that "having an open mind" or "waiting for all the facts"
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            Not okay, if there were other 911 calls it would a matter of public record and highly relevant to the case. The owner nor anyone else mentions other calls.
            What? That doesn't prove that other people were observed trespassing, but the observers declined to call the police simply because the trespassers were white. Can you support this assertion?
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              With MM it takes on the narrative Arbery must have been up to no good...
              You're a bald-faced liar. I never said "Arbery must have been up to no good".
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Splitting frog hairs to justify your agenda.
                What a profoundly ignorant thing to say. Digging for the TRUTH, and separating it from SPECULATION is what is needed here.

                Sorry that, in your world, searching for the TRUTH is "splitting frog hairs". By the way - that expression is incredibly RACIST!!!!
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Wow....

                  Why did New York Times call George Zimmerman ‘white Hispanic’?

                  The national media doesn’t do stories on black-on-black crime. . . . They don’t do stories on black-on-white crime. . . . The New York Times, in almost a caricature of a liberal media, refers to George Zimmerman as a ‘white Hispanic.’ I guarantee you that if George Zimmerman did something good — if he finished first in his high school graduating class when he was younger — they wouldn’t refer to him as a white Hispanic, he’d just be a Hispanic. . . . He’s only a ‘white Hispanic’ because they need the word ‘white’ to further the story line, which is, White, probably racist vigilante shoots an unarmed black kid.

                  National Review’s Jonah Goldberg advances a twin argument, blasting the use of the “white Hispanic” term: “It’s the way the blame for Martin’s death belongs squarely at the feet of ‘the system.’ And ‘the system’ is a white thing, don’t you know?”

                  Here’s an example of what Goldberg and Goldberg are citing: “Mr. Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic, told the police that he shot Trayvon in self-defense after an altercation.” That line comes from a March 22 New York Times news story about a development in the case.

                  The formulation is indeed an eyebrow-lifter. How often does such a term get tossed about? A Nexis search of the New York Times for “white Hispanic” over the past five years turns up 112 results. Yet that number is deceptively large....


                  The article goes on to expose the falsehood that "white Hispanic" is a common term.
                  HuffPo has an article about criticism of CNN for their use of "white Hispanic" noting that there has been push back from the Hispanic community noting that "rightwingers at Breitbart aren't the only ones irritated with the term."

                  ...Latino Rebels also slammed the label in a series of tweets.

                  And CNN columnist Ruben Navarrette also railed against describing Zimmerman as a “white Hispanic” last year, back when more media outlets were still using it.
                  I don’t like the sound of that. I’ve written about the thorny subjects of race and ethnicity for nearly a quarter century, and I rarely hear this term. We might have been able to see this coming given that there is no Hispanic race and Hispanics come in all colors.

                  The media didn’t coin the term “white Hispanic.” It’s been around for quite a long time — it just usually isn’t used to describe people like Zimmerman.

                  In the words of Teresa Puente, writing for Chicago Now, “To be blunt, Zimmerman’s skin tone is the same as mine, a medium brown.”


                  The fact that Zimmerman had the same color skin that those who are typically called Hispanic or Latino have with out the addition of the "white" descriptor attached was brought up a great deal back when the Trayvon Martin was shot.

                  It was painfully obvious it was used here by the MSM in order to stoke animosity. Bluntly, a Hispanic shooting a black person didn't fit into the agenda they wanted to push hence the addition of "white" into his description.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    I'm ready to do some civil discourse, Jim. You up for it?
                    I never wasn't up for it cp.


                    Most people would not be comfortable doing that. And, quite honestly, if I were a black man in a white neighborhood, I think I most CERTAINLY wouldn't be comfortable doing it.



                    I can't even imagine anybody "on a ride" saying, "hey, stop here, lemme go into that home under construction to get a drink".
                    Well, I couldn't either, except for the fact I've been on rides with perfectly decent fellows that did exactly that. So I don't have to imagine anything, I just have to remember that it happened and that these were guys that were just normal decent people. And if these normal decent guys I rode with would do that, then I have nothing to justify thinking arbery was not just as normal or decent as those same guys. And the actual words were more along the lines of, "hey, there is a working spickit over here if you want to fill up your water bottles".


                    I don't find anything at all that even suggests he was 'up to no good'. In fact, I've mentioned that he had been the victim of what I consider police abuse in the past in that same area.
                    I missed that post, but that is great. I wish I had seen it.


                    It could simply have been really bad judgment, Jim.
                    And it could have just been his culture and not understanding others would take offense, like the guys I rode with.

                    Agreed!



                    To be clear - I am not trying to justify anything, but I AM opposing unfounded speculation and conjecture. If you're up to civil discourse, I could expound on this, but if you're not ready, just say so, and I'll go back to no more interaction with you.
                    Sure. So far this is good.
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-25-2020, 01:06 PM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      And it could have just been his culture and not understanding others would take offense, like the guys I rode with.
                      This is hard for me to accept, Jim, and I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if you had a black guy riding with you, and he pointed to a house under construction in a white neighborhood, and said, "hey, pull over, I need a drink of water", would you think that's sensible? Would you suggest that might not be such a good idea?
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        This is hard for me to accept, Jim, and I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if you had a black guy riding with you, and he pointed to a house under construction in a white neighborhood, and said, "hey, pull over, I need a drink of water", would you think that's sensible? Would you suggest that might not be such a good idea?
                        Yeah, I can't imagine who would think that a construction site is a good place to stop for a drink of water. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that one.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Yeah, I can't imagine who would think that a construction site is a good place to stop for a drink of water. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that one.
                          Pull harder on your ears.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Yeah, I can't imagine who would think that a construction site is a good place to stop for a drink of water. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that one.
                            Are you really confused about the concept of a "victimless crime"? You never go even 1 mph over the speed limit?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              I think that's where he actually lived, but you're right - I haven't actually seen a cite for that. I have dropped that "10 miles from home", because I can't substantiate that.
                              Which is why, I wonder, did MM come up with it?


                              Jim, do you dispute that Arbery was on film at that place in the past AT NIGHT?
                              Again, not that it matters, but as far as I know thee is no evidnce that states Arbery himself visited the site previously. Do you have any?


                              How do you read with your eyes closed that tight? Here's a clue - when claims are made that Arbery was there at night in the past, the family attorney doesn't dispute that at all, he simply pivots to a claim that multiple people had been there "for water". When somebody's defense is "others have been there, too", instead of "he was never there prior"...
                              What claims are those, CP. i don't think his lawyers were pivoting from that claim at all, they're just stating a fact, that other people visited the site as well.


                              Then why are you arguing it? You do this a lot --- you get involved in an argument, then claim, "well, it doesn't matter". I think that's your way of admitting you have a very weak argument, and may well be proven wrong.
                              Because MM brought it up, MM made the claim that Arbery cased the joint on multiple occasions at night. I didn't bring it up.


                              I think this shows your ignorance, Jim - one of the primary targets for a home like this is COPPER. There is PLENTY of copper exposed in a home before the sheet rock goes up. Lemme splain this to you. Many times, the sheet rockers will do ONE SIDE of interior walls while the electricians install romex or conduit and low voltage wiring for thermostats, doorbells, security cameras, internet, alarms.... What happens a lot is this material is stripped out, piled up, and either dumped at the back of the property for later pickup or somebody else to collect it. NOTE - I am NOT SAYING that's what Arbery is done - as I have already stated, I don't see ANY prior criminal history in him -- unlike Trayvon Martin, which you seem to think is somehow equal.
                              Except there is no evidence of anything being stolen or that Arbery was in there for more than a few minutes, or had any tools on him. It's also highly unlikely that anyone is going to spend the time it takes to strip out copper tubing from an open home site at 1 o'clock in the afternoon. As far as Trayvon Martin is concerned, his past history had nothing to do with it, his murderer had no idea who Trayvon was, or of his past history.
                              Here's the problem --- you keep coming up with nutty theories or questions to discount actual facts, instead of looking at the actual facts and seeing where they lead.
                              Actually it's you defenders of the McMichaels gang that keep coming up with nutty theories, looking for possible ways to blame the victim, the rest of us are just going by the actual facts as they are known.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                Wow....

                                Why did New York Times call George Zimmerman ‘white Hispanic’?

                                The national media doesn’t do stories on black-on-black crime. . . . They don’t do stories on black-on-white crime. . . . The New York Times, in almost a caricature of a liberal media, refers to George Zimmerman as a ‘white Hispanic.’ I guarantee you that if George Zimmerman did something good — if he finished first in his high school graduating class when he was younger — they wouldn’t refer to him as a white Hispanic, he’d just be a Hispanic. . . . He’s only a ‘white Hispanic’ because they need the word ‘white’ to further the story line, which is, White, probably racist vigilante shoots an unarmed black kid.

                                National Review’s Jonah Goldberg advances a twin argument, blasting the use of the “white Hispanic” term: “It’s the way the blame for Martin’s death belongs squarely at the feet of ‘the system.’ And ‘the system’ is a white thing, don’t you know?”

                                Here’s an example of what Goldberg and Goldberg are citing: “Mr. Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic, told the police that he shot Trayvon in self-defense after an altercation.” That line comes from a March 22 New York Times news story about a development in the case.

                                The formulation is indeed an eyebrow-lifter. How often does such a term get tossed about? A Nexis search of the New York Times for “white Hispanic” over the past five years turns up 112 results. Yet that number is deceptively large....


                                The article goes on to expose the falsehood that "white Hispanic" is a common term.
                                That's just dumb. He was called white, because that's the color of his skin as opposed to Trayvon Martin who was obviously black.

                                Comment

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