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Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.

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  • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    No, that wasn't what he was doing, CP. MM was laying out opinionated assertions that the person was guilty of some crime and that he "agressively attacked" the man that was blocking his path with a gun on him.
    That he was guilty of trespassing on multiple occasions is not in doubt. That he aggressively attacked the man holding the shotgun is not in doubt.

    Stating these facts in no way suggests that shooting him was necessarily justified.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
      No, that wasn't what he was doing, CP.
      It was.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
        Rednecks and Trump voters do more bad things, again. Ambushing and killing an unarmed jogging black man.
        In a country of 328 million people, things like this are going to happen sometimes. It doesn't happen every day and it doesn't happen all over the place. It is an isolated incident compared to your run-of-the-mill murders, rapes, robberies, and assault.

        The media is all over it, though, because it is a 'man-bites-dog' story.

        Meanwhile, our country is going down in flames economically and through loss of liberty.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
          In a country of 328 million people, things like this are going to happen sometimes. It doesn't happen every day and it doesn't happen all over the place. It is an isolated incident compared to your run-of-the-mill murders, rapes, robberies, and assault.

          The media is all over it, though, because it is a 'man-bites-dog' story.

          Meanwhile, our country is going down in flames economically and through loss of liberty.
          I agree the US at the moment is going down in flames economically, because though Trump may have been a good business crook, he's an awful human being, a sociopath, and a terrible leader, particularly in a time of crises. As far as liberty goes, enjoy it while you still have it, because if Trump achieves his goal, if he consolidates power, a goal he's been working on since taking office, you won't have the freedoms you have now for long.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            That he was guilty of trespassing on multiple occasions is not in doubt. That he aggressively attacked the man holding the shotgun is not in doubt.

            Stating these facts in no way suggests that shooting him was necessarily justified.
            You are prosecuting the victim, MM. He's not just some "innocent" guy jogging, you say. The implication being that he was there to to rob the place. You've already convicted him in your mind. But guess what, he didn't commit any crime, and the owner of the site said there was no crime committed. So, you're doing your best to justify the shooting, you're just doing your best to avoid coming right out and saying it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              I don't know what else to call it when someone is corrected multiple times but persists in saying what they know is untrue.
              You haven't shown that Jim knows what he is saying is untrue. You haven't even shown that what he's saying is actually untrue, you've only claimed that it's untrue. It seems to me that Jim thinks you are fooling yourself - in which case Jim is not lying.

              Unless you can show that Jim knows what he is saying is untrue, you should withdraw your accusation.
              Last edited by Roy; 05-15-2020, 03:02 AM.
              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                What he was doing, yes. What you were ignorantly mocking, no. Part of laying out the facts includes rejecting false narrative.
                I'm curious. How do you know that the jogger "cased" the building site, rather than merely looked at it?
                Last edited by Roy; 05-15-2020, 03:12 AM.
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                  You are prosecuting the victim, MM. He's not just some "innocent" guy jogging, you say. The implication being that he was there to to rob the place. You've already convicted him in your mind. But guess what, he didn't commit any crime, and the owner of the site said there was no crime committed. So, you're doing your best to justify the shooting, you're just doing your best to avoid coming right out and saying it.
                  That he had visited the site on multiple occasions at night suggests that it was more than mere curiosity that attracted him. At the very least he was guilty of trespassing.

                  Does this in and of itself justify him being shot? Of course not. I'm still not even sure if the shooting was deliberate or if it was an accident caused as a direct result of the struggle.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    I agree the US at the moment is going down in flames economically, because though Trump may have been a good business crook, he's an awful human being, a sociopath, and a terrible leader, particularly in a time of crises. As far as liberty goes, enjoy it while you still have it, because if Trump achieves his goal, if he consolidates power, a goal he's been working on since taking office, you won't have the freedoms you have now for long.
                    That anti-Trump rant doesn't make a bit of sense. Tell me one thing that Trump has done to threaten your liberties.

                    My post was about taking an exception (this Arbery case) and inflating it so much as to distort reality. Distorting reality is what makes people callous; it makes them disregard real problems because the boy (the news media) was crying wolf. All I am saying is this case needs to be kept in perspective. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                      That anti-Trump rant doesn't make a bit of sense. Tell me one thing that Trump has done to threaten your liberties.

                      My post was about taking an exception (this Arbery case) and inflating it so much as to distort reality. Distorting reality is what makes people callous; it makes them disregard real problems because the boy (the news media) was crying wolf. All I am saying is this case needs to be kept in perspective. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump.
                      What perspective? How is this 'distorted reality'. Two white men pursued and killed a black man with no justifiable cause. That IS a big deal.
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        What perspective? How is this 'distorted reality'.
                        It is an isolated incident. Can you link to another such incident recently? An average of nine children die every day in the US from gunshot wounds*.

                        https://www.politifact.com/children-die-day/

                        There is your perspective.

                        Two white men pursued and killed a black man with no justifiable cause. That IS a big deal.
                        So if two black men pursued and killed a white man with no justifiable cause it wouldn't be a big deal? It is an isolated incident. The media is making hay - and big $ - out of hyping it.

                        *ETA: Correction. Average is 7.81 deaths per day
                        Last edited by Ronson; 05-15-2020, 09:35 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                          That anti-Trump rant doesn't make a bit of sense. Tell me one thing that Trump has done to threaten your liberties.
                          The DOJ is no longer an independent entity, Trump is now in control of the Justice dept which he is directing for political purposes, going after his political foes and protecting his political allies as well as himself. That's the beginnings of a banana republic, a dictatorship, in which the rule of law and your own liberties are at stake. Trump believes that the Constitution gives him total authority, that Article 2 gives him the right to do whatever he wants, or at least he is attempting to make that so.
                          My post was about taking an exception (this Arbery case) and inflating it so much as to distort reality. Distorting reality is what makes people callous; it makes them disregard real problems because the boy (the news media) was crying wolf. All I am saying is this case needs to be kept in perspective. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump.
                          This is a case of injustice at the local level, a cover-up by the local authorities. You're the one who brought it up in conection with the bigger picture of the economy. I simply responded to that.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                            It is an isolated incident. Can you link to another such incident recently? An average of nine children die every day in the US from gunshot wounds.

                            https://www.politifact.com/children-die-day/

                            There is your perspective.
                            Without accusing you specicially of racism, unfortunately, that is the sort of 'perspective' I would expect to see from a neo-Nazi or a white supremacist, not a person that wants to see Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" fulfilled. Because of the history of racism in this country and the continued instances of racially motivated attacks in this country, anytime white people single out a black person with no justification and kill them, it is a big deal. The perspective you are missing is a history of centuries of slavery and abuse, the KKK, of lynchings and harassment that continues in some places to this very day, of the uptick in such events and racially motivated groups the last 4 years especially, of deference to whites when such events happen (how long was this thing put on 'hold' by Georgia law enforcement?) THERE is your perspective Ronson. This is a big deal because it is evidence of the fact there still is not equal treatment under the law of black people relative to white people. The continued bias in this thread towards exaggerating this man's presence on the property of a home under construction, even when there is no evidence whatsoever he was doing anything other than taking a break during his run, is also strong evidence for the (often unconscious) racial bias that sits hidden from view in the white community.

                            So if two black men pursued and killed a white man with no justifiable cause it wouldn't be a big deal? It is an isolated incident. The media is making hay - and big $ - out of hyping it.
                            This is a big deal both because of the event AND because of the legacy of slavery, racism, and lynching of blacks by whites in this country. That is a reality that will elevate an event like this that will not bring the same focus on the reverse. This is evidence not merely of depravity by the two white men, but also of a continuation of that legacy.

                            But you are also wrong about what draws media focus. When black youths randomly targeted white patrons with no motivation, we heard about it. When jewish synagogues are defaced, we hear about it. Any evidence of the sorts of bigotry and racism that we as a society are trying to stamp out will make the news.

                            https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0...en-involvement

                            black on black:

                            https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...67y-story.html

                            Heinous crimes make the news. Hate crimes make the news. Random violence with no cause makes the news. This is all three.
                            Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-15-2020, 09:58 AM.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                              It is an isolated incident. Can you link to another such incident recently? An average of nine children die every day in the US from gunshot wounds*.

                              https://www.politifact.com/children-die-day/

                              There is your perspective.



                              So if two black men pursued and killed a white man with no justifiable cause it wouldn't be a big deal? It is an isolated incident. The media is making hay - and big $ - out of hyping it.

                              *ETA: Correction. Average is 7.81 deaths per day
                              Are you suggesting that the media shouldn't make a big deal out of corruption within the legal institutions, and that it's no big deal? If the situation were reversed, it most likely wouldn't be a big deal, because the 2 black men would have been arrested on the spot and locked up.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                Are you suggesting that the media shouldn't make a big deal out of corruption within the legal institutions, and that it's no big deal? If the situation were reversed, it most likely wouldn't be a big deal, because the 2 black men would have been arrested on the spot and locked up.
                                This incident is primarily noteworthy (to me) because of an ex police officer possibly getting preferential treatment by local police. People in that jurisdiction should be aware of this and correct it if it is applicable.

                                Comment

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