Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.

[Cow Poke]

It's definitely a shocker to me. I'm not even sure I could fill it out without feeling odd.

Many times, I leave that part blank when asked.

Thank you Cow Poke, you're also very reasonable.

Well, the problem is - if you don't absolutely glom onto the fact that [whatever the liberal mantra is], then you're either a racist or a heartless so-and-so.
I simply like to look at the facts, stripped of rhetoric and emotion. It's what they do in court.

That one is a bit difficult. I do not lie down and take prejudice well Cow Poke, I don't know whether to be proud of him, or tell him not to risk things or he might get shot.

I think if you actually understood the culture in his area, and you loved him, you'd tell him it's not such a good idea.

Now that I've answered that question what do I win?

My respect and admiration?

[oxmixmudd]

This is hard for me to accept, Jim, and I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if you had a black guy riding with you, and he pointed to a house under construction in a white neighborhood, and said, "hey, pull over, I need a drink of water", would you think that's sensible? Would you suggest that might not be such a good idea?

That isnt the point CP. Everyone doesnt think the same way about this. I gave you an example of exactly what happened on a group ride. To them, these houses wher not owned by anyone yet. And getting a little water from a spickit on a ride was no more a shady action than stopping there for a break. They were not stealing or taking or hurting anything. But that event does shape how I see what arbery did.

[Cow Poke]

To be fair, one can also turn that around and ask why conservatives try so hard to pretend there's not a problem.

But that's simply not true in my case.

Here, since you're the adult in the room..... and we have some liberal doofus here accusing me of racism....

We're the guys who run the Jobs for Life program to help minorities learn how to do job applications, interviews, help with basic English and math, and work with employers who will give them a hand up, and actually get them hired...
We're also the guys who run the "tough love" program with the vast majority of the participants being minorities, where we work with them to deal with past offenses, court appearances, probation officers....
We're also the guys who run the food pantry and shelter where -- IF a participant is willing to work and do their part -- we help them with a place to live and three hot meals...
We're also the guys who take "at risk" minorities and enroll them in the Citizen's Police Academy where they can learn "the other side" of the law enforcement equation...

We like to deal with these problems BEFORE somebody gets dead.

So, when some internet troll calls me racist, I laugh at their stupidity.

[JimL]

If you bothered to drill down through your source, you'd know it makes a distinction between "white" and "Hispanic".

The problem with the George Zimmerman case is that the liberal media jumped the gun and said, "White guy shoots black guy!" Then someone said, "Uh, you know he's Hispanic, right?" Next thing you know, the headlines are reading, "White Hispanic guy shoots black guy!"

In other words it had nothing to do with his being hispanic until someone mentioned it.

[Cow Poke]

That isnt the point CP. Everyone doesnt think the same way about this. I gave you an example of exactly what happened on a group ride. To them, these houses wher not owned by anyone yet. And getting a little water from a spickit on a ride was no more a shady action than stopping there for a break. They were not stealing or taking or hurting anything. But that event does shape how I see what arbery did.

Come on, Jim, you wouldn't say, "hey, let's stop at the Circle K and I'll buy you a Big Gulp"? You'd REALLY let the black guy go into a house under construction to 'get a drink', knowing the problems it might cause?

Friends don't let friends get dead.

[Mountain Man]

You didn't insinuate he was guilty eh? Here's your quote once again for you to ignore, since you asked for it:

"This guy wasn't out jogging, and he didn't just happen to wander by and poke his head in out of curiosity. The neighborhood in question was 10 miles from his home and he had cased the place at night on multiple occassions. But this lie that he was just some innocent black man out for a jog, needs to be rejected."

Not only is your quote misinformation, if not outright fabrications on your part, but yes, it is you insinuating that the guy was guilty.

As I said a few posts above, all the reports at the time were saying this happened ten miles from Arbery's home, which is still technically accurate, but it apparently doesn't tell the whole story since he may have been visiting his mother who lived closer. This is why it's important to keep an open mind and not fix your opinion based on initial reports.

That there is video evidence of him trespassing at night on multiple occasions can not be disputed. What was he up to? Nobody knows.

That he was observed trespassing on the day of the incident can not be disputed. What was he up to? Nobody knows.

So I stand by my original position that we should reject the narrative that has been built up that the McMichaels decided to give chase for no other reason than they happened to see a black guy doing nothing more than innocently jogging through the neighborhood.

[Leonhard]

But that's simply not true in my case.

Yeah but you talked about 'liberals' in general. All of them. So, as long as there are conservatives sweeping racism under the rug, or dismissing concerns about it, then I get to throw it back on you.

We humans are good at painting with broad brush strokes, it's so simple an easy to do.

We're the guys who run the Jobs for Life program to help minorities learn how to do job applications, interviews, help with basic English and math, and work with employers who will give them a hand up, and actually get them hired...
We're also the guys who run the "tough love" program with the vast majority of the participants being minorities, where we work with them to deal with past offenses, court appearances, probation officers....
We're also the guys who run the food pantry and shelter where -- IF a participant is willing to work and do their part -- we help them with a place to live and three hot meals...
We're also the guys who take "at risk" minorities and enroll them in the Citizen's Police Academy where they can learn "the other side" of the law enforcement equation...

We like to deal with these problems BEFORE somebody gets dead.

You do a lot of good work Cow Poke, I'm just a danish engineer. I don't do much in general beyond having finally managed to land a job and get good at it.

[Cow Poke]

You don't need to fill out forms for stuff like that. Well except affirmative action I guess. We don't have that in Denmark. We do have the equivalent of hate-crime laws, and you can get a fine for racist utterings and racial slurs used in certain contexts. However I've never seen a form where I needed to specify a race.

The affirmative action thing has been all over the map. I personally was deprived of a promotion because the 'law' forced our department to promote a black, a Hispanic and a woman - regardless if they met the qualifications. My best friend, a firefighter, was passed over for a promotion on his department, (theirs is a Union shop, mine wasn't) and years later was awarded a huge financial compensation because of it, because it was ruled "reverse discrimination".

[Cow Poke]

Yeah but you talked about 'liberals' in general. All of them.

Good point - I should have narrowed that to CERTAIN liberals here.

So, as long as there are conservatives sweeping racism under the rug, or dismissing concerns about it, then I get to throw it back on you.

Fair enough.

We humans are good at painting with broad brush strokes, it's so simple an easy to do.

OK, the horse is dead, you can cease the beatings.

You do a lot of good work Cow Poke, I'm just a danish engineer. I don't do much in general beyond having finally managed to land a job and get good at it.

Well, here's the point --- I get tired of CERTAIN liberals going on and on AFTER somebody gets dead, when it makes so much more sense to do what it takes to PREVENT them from getting dead.
Prosecuting the actors in this case - even condemning them to death - doesn't bring back the victim.

[Mountain Man]

You don't need to fill out forms for stuff like that. Well except affirmative action I guess. We don't have that in Denmark. We do have the equivalent of hate-crime laws, and you can get a fine for racist utterings and racial slurs used in certain contexts. However I've never seen a form where I needed to specify a race.

It's basically to make it easier for employers to move applications to the top of the stack if they're looking to fulfill legal obligations for minority hires.

[Leonhard]

When I visited my grandmother on the island of Samsee I'd usually go to a Church Cemetary on the southern island during a long bike ride. There was a faucet there that was used to water plants with, but it was serviceable enough to drink from. I don't think I'd ever get anywhere near one that inside another guys farm unless I knew him.

The good thing about that island was that it was small enough that nearly everyone knew nearly everyone though.

However I don't think it's plausible that he'd stop in for a drink of water. Curiosity is more plausible if he was just a jogger. I get curious. I've walked up to see construction sites previously in my past. There was a huge one down on the docks, and it was cool to study what they had been up to.

I don't think I'd personally do it for a house.

[Mountain Man]

Paraphrase mm, paraphrase. And that is the thrust, the meaning, of a large percentage of the posts you have made in this thread that mention Arbery. And it's not just me that has made mention of it.

You can take your false "paraphrase" and shove it up the bodily orifice of your choice, thank you very much.

[Cow Poke]

If you bothered to drill down through your source, you'd know it makes a distinction between "white" and "Hispanic".

The problem with the George Zimmerman case is that the liberal media jumped the gun and said, "White guy shoots black guy!" Then someone said, "Uh, you know he's Hispanic, right?" Next thing you know, the headlines are reading, "White Hispanic guy shoots black guy!"

That's the point.... and had it been another black guy who had shot him, it'd be no big news at all, though Trayvon would be just as dead, and we wouldn't even be discussing it.

[Mountain Man]

Come on, Jim, you wouldn't say, "hey, let's stop at the Circle K and I'll buy you a Big Gulp"? You'd REALLY let the black guy go into a house under construction to 'get a drink', knowing the problems it might cause?

Friends don't let friends get dead.

I suspect there's more to the story that ox isn't telling us. Because really, who goes to a construction site to look for something to drink? As the saying goes, that doesn't pass the smell test. Of course it's possible, but it's unusual enough behavior to the point that this is the first I've ever heard of such a thing.

[Cow Poke]

When I visited my grandmother on the island of Samsee I'd usually go to a Church Cemetary on the southern island during a long bike ride. There was a faucet there that was used to water plants with, but it was serviceable enough to drink from. I don't think I'd ever get anywhere near one that inside another guys farm unless I knew him.

The good thing about that island was that it was small enough that nearly everyone knew nearly everyone though.

However I don't think it's plausible that he'd stop in for a drink of water. Curiosity is more plausible if he was just a jogger. I get curious. I've walked up to see construction sites previously in my past. There was a huge one down on the docks, and it was cool to study what they had been up to.

I don't think I'd personally do it for a house.

Because you're exercising good judgment.
Now, take what you said, and you're in the same situation, but you are black, and the island you're visiting is mostly whites with a history of racism.