Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.

[Bill the Cat]

So you agree, but you still want to argue the fact?

I still want to know how you think they were a threat to his life before the altercation. According to witness statements, the son's gun was pointed toward the ground.

[Cow Poke]

Actually I didn't move at all,

Good point - you STAY there.

so have no idea what you mean by that. The facts are that Arbery was under threat, and he reacted to it, whether ultimately in his best interests or not, in the way he thought best.

Are you pretending you didn't make the claim that " Arbery was minding his own business "? You actually said that, and it's clearly not true.

That was his business, not the McMichaels business, and he was simply jogging, minding his own business, when the McMichaels began their pursuit of him.

Jim, going onto private property into a house under construction is NOT Arbery's business. It's just not!

I understand you feel you have immunity, but you really ought to stop breaking tweb rules, CP.

OK, let's clear that up --- in order for it to be a lie, you'd have to be smart enough to understand what you were saying.
So, I apologize - it's not a lie - it's just freakin bird-brained stupidity on your part.

Feel better?

So you agree, but you still want to argue the fact?

Jim, stop saying stupid stuff. If you hadn't made the idiot claim that "Arbery was minding his own business", I wouldn't have been calling you out on your moronic claim.

[JimL]

I still want to know how you think they were a threat to his life before the altercation. According to witness statements, the son's gun was pointed toward the ground.

Source?

[oxmixmudd]

I still want to know how you think they were a threat to his life before the altercation. According to witness statements, the son's gun was pointed toward the ground.

I hope one day you are jogging through a neighborhood and three armed men come after you. Not so you'll suffer any harm, but just so you'll get a taste of what you so glibly have dismissed in this thread. Just so you'll come face to face with the fear and the threat Arbery was subjected to.

[Bill the Cat]

Source?

Sorry, I meant the video showed it. The position of his arms when Arbury turned left reveals that the gun was pointed down. No evidence exists that shows the gun was pointed at him prior to the struggle for the gun.

[JimL]

I hope one day you are jogging through a neighborhood and three armed men come after you. Not so you'll suffer any harm, but just so you'll get a taste of what you so glibly have dismissed in this thread. Just so you'll come face to face with the fear and the threat Arbery was subjected to.

I think that 3 armed black men in a predominently black community would be an even a better analogy for Bill to mull over.

[Bill the Cat]

I hope one day you are jogging through a neighborhood and three armed men come after you. Not so you'll suffer any harm, but just so you'll get a taste of what you so glibly have dismissed in this thread. Just so you'll come face to face with the fear and the threat Arbery was subjected to.

Already been there in North Omaha in the late 80s. I complied with the armed man's request. And nothing happened to me. And mark this. This will be the last time I ever respond to you.

[Mountain Man]

I still want to know how you think they were a threat to his life before the altercation. According to witness statements, the son's gun was pointed toward the ground.

It's fairly easy to see in the video I posted earlier, especially if you use the highest quality available (1440) and slow the video down; watching in full screen helps, too. When the younger McMichaels exits the truck, the gun is pointed down. He only raises it when Arbery continues to approach (around the 7-second mark). Arbery continues running towards him for several more seconds and then veers to the right, runs around the truck, and attacks McMichaels. So McMichaels clearly had a window of opportunity of at least several seconds to pull the trigger if it was really his intent to simply gun down a black guy in cold blood.

[Whateverman]

It's fairly easy to see in the video I posted earlier, especially if you use the highest quality available (1440) and slow the video down; watching in full screen helps, too. When the younger McMichaels exits the truck, the gun is pointed down. He only raises it when Arbery continues to approach (around the 7-second mark). Arbery continues running towards him for several more seconds and then veers to the right, runs around the truck, and attacks McMichaels. So McMichaels clearly had a window of opportunity of at least several seconds to pull the trigger if it was really his intent to simply gun down a black guy in cold blood.

The fact that he didn't fire during that timeframe doesn't imply he didn't have the intent to gun Arbery down.

[Mountain Man]

The fact that he didn't fire during that timeframe doesn't imply he didn't have the intent to gun Arbery down.

It makes it a lot harder to make that argument when the defendant passed up a perfect opportunity to pull the trigger. If it was his intent to shoot Arbery then what was he waiting for? Did he think a better opportunity would present itself? I think the fact that no shots were fired until they began wrestling over the gun is significant, as is the fact that McMichaels immediately lowered his weapon and backed away when it was clear that Arbery was no longer a threat. In my mind, those do not strike me as the actions of someone with an intent to kill.

[oxmixmudd]

Already been there in North Omaha in the late 80s. I complied with the armed man's request. And nothing happened to me. And mark this. This will be the last time I ever respond to you.

ok.

Then how can you possibly justify your callous disregard for what happened to Arbery in terms of your criticism and blame if my wishing that on you is so 'HEINOUS' you'll refuse to talk to me anymore?

As a follow-up I'll ask you/whoever is following this exchange two questions

1 - do you suppose it would be worse if it was 3 men, in trucks, chasing you over a period of time, two them with guns than one lone man with a gun. Or was it more than one man, but just one was armed?
2 - you 'complied'. Some people don't react to threats by 'complying'. They are more aggressive than that. Do you suppose your 'complying' is what saved you, or just the fact that the particular person that pulled the gun on you had no other ill intent beyond doing whatever it was you 'complied' with? Often in kidnapping cases, the advice is to struggle to get away before they get you alone. Complying with a kidnapper is not the best action.


But in summary - Bill, you responded almost exactly as I expected you to.

And that response makes my point - thank you.

[JonathanL]

BtC: I was threatened by a man with a gun.

Ox:

A real class act.

[Bill the Cat]

BtC: I was threatened by a man with a gun.

Ox:

A real class act.

Which is why I have no intention of ever responding to him again. It is out of pure respect for Cath that I don't tell him what I really think of him.

[oxmixmudd]

The fact that he didn't fire during that timeframe doesn't imply he didn't have the intent to gun Arbery down.

Nor does it imply he would not have gunned Arbery down if upon learning their intent he again tried to flee. This was a no win situation for Arbery all the way around. These men had no right to use deadly force to subdue him - nothing he had done conferred upon them that authority or power. And Arbery, a black man in a white neighboryhood, had no reason to assume white men chasing him with guns had anything but deadly intent. Indeed, CP made the point several times Arbery should have 'known better' than to be jogging there (and if that doesn't add fuel to the justification of the floyd protests, what does?).

Think about that. A person in this thread - inn 2020 60+ years after the CRA - that swears up and down they has no 'unknown' or 'covert' racism hidden in them, thinks the logical thing to do is to expect Arbery to have 'known better than to be running in a white neighborhood'. He thinks this is 'good advice', something that 'fixes the problem'.

This same thread and other threads have seen comments from more than one source implying 'it's all better now'. The Civil Rights Acts from the '60's fixed racism so what's left is mostly the black community's(or culture's) fault.

YET

"he should have know better than to be jogging in a white, safe for everyone else neighborhood" ----- because he was a black man.


ETA: my use of quotes here is not to quote any persons actual words. They are NOT exact verbatum quotes of any person in this thread. They simply represent the sentiments expressed as I saw them. But if anyone wants to debate the accuracy of that sentiment, I'll be glad to go back through the thread and bring into play the actual statements that I am summarizing here.

[Cow Poke]

BtC: I was threatened by a man with a gun.

Ox:

A real class act.

Hey, but JimL amen'd him!