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Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
    That's a big load of BS you have there Ox. Again, lots of mistakes, including one by the victim himself. If someone has a gun pointed at you the last thing you should try to do is take it from them. Once he tried to wrestle for the gun, he put himself into harms way. Did he deserve to die for trespassing? NO, but when being held at gunpoint for the police, sane rational people put their hands up and wait, not try to take the gun away. That's called stupidity. I have a carry license, if I (Heaven FORBID) ever have to pull it and aim it at someone and that person tries to take it from me, they will get shot. Plain and simple.
    There should have never been a gun involved. Those that brought it to the party are those responsible for the consequences. Blaming the young black man is just playing into the racist stereotypes. It was not his fault. He was scared. He was perhaps stupid. But the fault lies with the fellow pointing the gun and taking the law into his own hands when up to that point there was not 1 justification for pointing a gun at the man.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-13-2020, 01:56 PM.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      Blaming the black boy...
      Why do you do this? He wasn't a boy, he was an adult.

      Come, Mr. Lover Of Truth, at least try to be honest about how you discuss this story.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Why do you do this? He wasn't a boy, he was an adult.

        Come, Mr. Lover Of Truth, at least try to be honest about how you discuss this story.
        He was a young man. 25 years old. My mistake. 'Why do I do this' is over the top. And I adjusted the text in the post.
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          'Why do I do this' is over the top.
          Not at all. Your bias has been clear since your first post in this thread. You've clearly bought into the liberal narrative. For instance, you falsely accused me of trying to justify the shooting simply because I described the facts.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Not at all. Your bias has been clear since your first post in this thread. You've clearly bought into the liberal narrative. For instance, you falsely accused me of trying to justify the shooting simply because I described the facts.
            It is your own bias that keeps you from realizing that you are, in fact, justifying what happened here. In a way that many black people are used to from what they often see as their white oppressors. That is why we have 'black lives matter' and why it often gets heated. When you tell us why it was this young mans fault he is dead when these fellows came after him with guns to do their own version of police work, with the history of lynching and violence against blacks in this country, you are just a continuation of that same abuse. It's not a 'liberal narrative', its a reality black people grow up with, and least many of them.

            It's the reason many black people know exactly what is meant by 'the talk'. And it's not the birds and the bees. It's how to act if a policeman pulls you over, understanding that for a black person they are much more likely to find themselves in trouble with the police over nothing than a white person is. That is what the reality is. And to then see the Police department here stall justice for this young man, and take the side of those that killed him, and then to see people in discussions like this try to justify or play down what happened, cast blame on him, its just more of the same injustice they believe they have had to live with all their lives.

            This young man should not be dead. And the people that killed him deserve to go to jail. And that is the simple reality of this situation. There are no elements of this case that justify where this ended up, that justify civilians going after this person armed with guns where it escalates to the point of him being shot and killed.
            Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-13-2020, 02:42 PM.
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              There should have never been a gun involved.
              That's your opinion...and it's based on your emotional reaction to a tragic death. You don't know that for a fact.

              Those that brought it to the party are those responsible for the consequences.
              No, that's not entirely true. Facts will bear this out or not. I don't think we have enough of the facts yet. Stand your ground could come into play regardless of Rogue06's opinion.

              Blaming the young black man is just playing into the racist stereotypes.
              Calling me a racist will not get you anywhere, and I RESENT the implication.

              It was not his fault. He was scared. He was perhaps stupid. But the fault lies with the fellow pointing the gun and taking the law into his own hands when up to that point there was not 1 justification for pointing a gun at the man.
              First of all, I haven't BLAMED anyone. I dare you to point to any of my posts in this thread and show where I have put the fault on any one person. Stupidity kills people all the time Jim...but stupidity doesn't always make it their fault. Also, you aren't a retired Police Officer. How they respond to something and how you or I respond isn't always going to be the same. I think it's a tragedy regardless of who's responsible, but, it can be a comedy of errors that resulted in an unfortunate death and nobodies ultimately responsible. At this point, I think they share the blame, facts may change my opinion one way or the other.
              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                It is your own bias that keeps you from realizing that you are, in fact, justifying what happened here.
                That would be a lie. I in no way condoned, excused, or justified anyone's actions. All I did was describe the facts. Why are you so unwilling to accept the truth?

                And now you're insisting that the men who confronted Arbery should be in jail. Don't you think we should wait until we have all the facts before casting judgment?
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  [...] All I did was describe the facts. [...]

                  [...] Don't you think we should wait until we have all the facts before casting judgment?[...]
                  So, you described "the facts" but we should still wait for "the facts"?

                  Seems there are different standards to determine when we know "the facts" and I cannot help but note in which case you seem to already know the facts and in which case you are much more reluctant and have no problem waiting for "the facts".
                  "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                    That's your opinion...and it's based on your emotional reaction to a tragic death. You don't know that for a fact.

                    No, that's not entirely true. Facts will bear this out or not. I don't think we have enough of the facts yet. Stand your ground could come into play regardless of Rogue06's opinion.

                    Calling me a racist will not get you anywhere, and I RESENT the implication.

                    First of all, I haven't BLAMED anyone. I dare you to point to any of my posts in this thread and show where I have put the fault on any one person. Stupidity kills people all the time Jim...but stupidity doesn't always make it their fault. Also, you aren't a retired Police Officer. How they respond to something and how you or I respond isn't always going to be the same. I think it's a tragedy regardless of who's responsible, but, it can be a comedy of errors that resulted in an unfortunate death and nobodies ultimately responsible. At this point, I think they share the blame, facts may change my opinion one way or the other.
                    Unless the young man was himself armed, and unless these vigilantes caught him committing a crime, they had no reason to be pursuing him to detain him with lethal force. Yes, we will have to wait for the results of the investigation to finalize that, but there is nothing here that even hints at a justification for what happened. They saw him wondering though a house under construction. That is justification for "Hey you, what are you doing in there, I'm calling the police!". That is not justification for chasing him down armed and trying to with deadly force detain him.

                    As for 'calling you racist', I said you were playing into racist stereotypes. I didn't call you a racist. To warn you as I did about 'playing into racists stereotype' assumes two things - both of them good. It assumes you are not racist, and it assumes you don't want to be perceived as racist. To warn you as I did is to try to help you to avoid participating in racist language or thought accidentally with the assumption you want to avoid that.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      That would be a lie. I in no way condoned, excused, or justified anyone's actions. All I did was describe the facts. Why are you so unwilling to accept the truth?

                      And now you're insisting that the men who confronted Arbery should be in jail. Don't you think we should wait until we have all the facts before casting judgment?
                      No - that is not a lie. I said "it is your bias that keeps you from realizing ...". Do you understand what that means MM? I means that you don't understand that is what you are doing. And I then go on to explain why. What it is about your bias that is blinding you to the fact you are, in fact, providing justification for (i.e justifying) these guys.

                      So, my logic could be flawed that leads me to conclude you are unknowingly justifying this situation, but there is no 'lie' involved here. I am not saying something about you I know to be untrue. I am saying you don't understand the implications of your words.
                      Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-13-2020, 03:23 PM.
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        There is a lot of speculation and rumour surrounding this case at the moment. From what I have seen, there is no evidence that Arbery was a thief, or was intending to steal anything.

                        His only ‘crime’ was being black, in the vicinity of an armed Trump supporter.
                        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                        “not all there” - you know who you are

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          What it is about your bias that is blinding you to the fact you are, in fact, providing justification for (i.e justifying) these guys.
                          Repeating a lie after you have been corrected shows a wilful disregard for the truth. That's not a good look for you.

                          I explicitly said, "I'm not saying he deserved to be shot, or that the guys were necessarily right to approach him while armed, or any nonsense like," so you never had any grounds for accusing me of justifying anybody's actions.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                            There is a lot of speculation and rumour surrounding this case at the moment. From what I have seen, there is no evidence that Arbery was a thief, or was intending to steal anything.

                            His only ‘crime’ was being black, in the vicinity of an armed Trump supporter.
                            Not sure "trump supporter' is relevant, or necessarily accurate.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Repeating a lie after you have been corrected shows a wilful disregard for the truth. That's not a good look for you.

                              I explicitly said, "I'm not saying he deserved to be shot, or that the guys were necessarily right to approach him while armed, or any nonsense like," so you never had any grounds for accusing me of justifying anybody's actions.
                              Perhaps the last part of your own sentence that you conveniently left out could be important in this context.... Is that why you did not include it?

                              Let me help. You said:
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              "I'm not saying he deserved to be shot, or that the guys were necessarily right to approach him while armed, or any nonsense like, but this lie that he was just some innocent black man out for a jog needs to be rejected."
                              Emphasis mine.

                              Sometimes what you leave out says quite a lot too.
                              Last edited by Charles; 05-13-2020, 03:35 PM.
                              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                Repeating a lie after you have been corrected shows a wilful disregard for the truth. That's not a good look for you.

                                I explicitly said, "I'm not saying he deserved to be shot, or that the guys were necessarily right to approach him while armed, or any nonsense like," so you never had any grounds for accusing me of justifying anybody's actions.
                                And I'm saying that you are justifying these fellows without realizing it. There is no lie involved about you or from you.

                                Clearly - if you don't realize it you will not believe you are. The only problem here is that you are unwilling to even consider I might have a point. I explained why your words do - in fact - justify these fellows in the first post in this exchange.
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

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