Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.

[Mountain Man]

Well let's see:



But you still claim...:



See right above....

Good try but you can't have all the dirt go under the radar just because you once in a while say you are not trying to justify anything when you obvioulsy are. You are just dishonest so you want to throw all the dirt you can and still pretend you are not trying to put him in a bad light. It is dishonest and disgusting.



You are simply being held accountable for what you have said and for your racist bais throughtout this post. Most of the time one can simply just quote some of your previous posts to show that what you are saying is dishones.

Sorry, Chuck, but I don't believe you're really as stupid as you act. You know as well as I that just because it's reasonable to think that Arbery would still be alive if he hadn't attacked the man with the shotgun in no way justifies any of the actions taken against him. I never said it, I never implied it, and I don't believe it, and I'm pretty sure you don't, either. Stop trolling and try having an honest discussion for once.

[oxmixmudd]

You didn't back up your claim. I expect you to cease spreading lies about me from here on.

You are the one accusing me of lying, you are the one who has to back up your claim. I have not accused anyone of lying. I have said I believe the way Arbery's character is attacked is due to racism on the part of those attacking him. I believe that racism is not entirely conscious, that it is more just the way they have been taught to think per our culture. That is my belief. And I am not lying when I say that is what I believe is true.

[Cow Poke]

It's my understanding that entering a property with intent to steal (i.e. then or at a later time) is a felony, which would then give legal grounds for a citizen's arrest........

If I night offer some guidance on that point...

It would be very difficult to prove "entering with intent to steal", even if something were subsequently stolen.
I don't think you'll find that term in any legal dictionary or any relevant codified ordinance.
Trespassing would not be a felony - it would usually be about a Class B Misdemeanor.
Observing somebody trespassing on somebody else's private property does not trigger a justification for arrest, citizen or otherwise, without authorization of the property owner

[Cow Poke]

The ONLY reason you guys are entertaining this is because that 'fellow' was black....

If I'm included in this ignorant sweeping false allegation, it's an outright lie, and I demand an apology.

[Cow Poke]

Stop lying about me, oxmixmudd.

I'm not sure he's lying -- It's appearing to me that he's so screwed up in the head over this that he actually believes this crap.

[Cow Poke]

.....I have said I believe the way Arbery's character is attacked is due to racism on the part of those attacking him.....

How wash! This is what you said, exactly....

The ONLY reason you guys are entertaining this is because that 'fellow' was black.

There was no "I believe....." - it was an outright accusation of racism, and now you're being blatantly dishonest about what you said.

[oxmixmudd]

If I'm included in this ignorant sweeping false allegation, it's an outright lie, and I demand an apology.

It's not a lie CP, it s what I believe to be true. You believe otherwise. We belive different things about what is causing the focus on arbery's character.

The racism I believe is motivating this is not entirely conscious, but then again none of you is willing to consider how your culture and class may have conditioned you to think in a racist manner, so there is no way to bridge the gulf in thinking that drives this disagreement about the underlying racism driving the content of this thread.

Are you telling me I am not allowed to tell you what I believe to be true, just because you disagree?

[oxmixmudd]

How wash! This is what you said, exactly....



There was no "I believe....." - it was an outright accusation of racism, and now you're being blatantly dishonest about what you said.

Their is no meaningful distinction in a subjective statement such as that between "I Believe x is true" and "x is true". But if it makes you happier, you can feel free to render that statement with the words 'I believe'.

As has been quoted many times on TWEB, to be a lie, the person must know what they are saying is false. I am absolutely sure what I am saying is true.

The problem here is effectively the same as if one has an uncle who is an alcoholic, and you say to that uncle "you are an alcoholic", and the uncle says " liar!"

[Cow Poke]

It's not a lie CP, it s what I believe to be true.

You didn't state it as a belief - you made a sweeping accusation, and I know that, with regards to me, it's false.
I have made ZERO attacks on Arbery. NOTHING I said about him was because he is black.

You believe otherwise. We belive different things about what is causing the focus on arbery's character.

You made a false statement, then you lied about what you said.

The racism I believe ....

You are SO CONSUMED with seeing everything as racism that it's destroying any credibility you have had.

Show a little bit of integrity and admit you were wrong to blatantly accuse me or anybody else of....

The ONLY reason you guys are entertaining this is because that 'fellow' was black. And you would not be carrying on like this if the fellow was white. And that is what reality is. Deny it all you want, but that is what the reality is.

That's false. I would back off my accusation that it's a lie ONLY because I believe you are so consumed with racism that you actually believe this crap.

[oxmixmudd]

You didn't state it as a belief - you made a sweeping accusation, and I know that, with regards to me, it's false.
I have made ZERO attacks on Arbery. NOTHING I said about him was because he is black.



You made a false statement, then you lied about what you said.



You are SO CONSUMED with seeing everything as racism that it's destroying any credibility you have had.

Show a little bit of integrity and admit you were wrong to blatantly accuse me or anybody else of....



That's false. I would back off my accusation that it's a lie ONLY because I believe you are so consumed with racism that you actually believe this crap.

Yes you are allowed to say that what I believe to be true is crap, and I would then not be correct to then call you a liar, because in all likelyhood you do in fact believe that my beief is false.

The problem CP is that you are not willing to even consider if why you are so strongly focused on those things that incriminate Arbery and excuse the shooter's might be some sort of racial thinking you are not entirely aware of.

why?

My credibility is established by my honesty and my commitment to the truth. These are emotional topics, and your reaction to my statements is purely emotional. This has nothing to do with truthbor credibility. It has to with the fact you are deeply offended by the fact I think there is a racial motivation behind the content in this thread.

Just like an alcoholic uncle would be if accused him of being an alcoholic.

All I have to offer in this case is the self evident reality that if Arbery were a white man, the chase would never have occurred.

so ask yourself, all other things being equal. Do you really believe the chase would have happened if arbery was a white man?

[MaxVel]

You are the one accusing me of lying, you are the one who has to back up your claim. I have not accused anyone of lying. I have said I believe the way Arbery's character is attacked is due to racism on the part of those attacking him. I believe that racism is not entirely conscious, that it is more just the way they have been taught to think per our culture. That is my belief. And I am not lying when I say that is what I believe is true.

Ok, then you're not lying, you're simply uttering falsehoods. You don't know anything of significance about me, my life, my experiences. You have no valid basis for judging my motivations and beliefs. On top of that you don't get to demand others back up their claims when you have from the very start of this topic personally attacked anyone who raises a fact - just for discussion - that you don't like. And filling this thread with your unsupported claims that others are racist, or supporting racism. I have tried to have a good faith discussion with you, but you - and it IS a pattern with you - resort to personal smears and veiled attacks on the morality of people when you can't support your position with facts.


I am telling you here that I am not racist. Therefore when you say that I am, you are stating 'an opinion' about me that you have no basis for, and one that I am telling you is false. You have no support for your opinion apart from that you are convinced of it. It's an uncalled for personal attack.


Now that we've done with the semantics, stop implying that I am a racist because I want to look at all the data. If I am a racist, then you are a race-baiter, provoking violence and hatred between the races in America. Now what?

[Cow Poke]

Yes you are allowed to say that what I believe to be true is crap, and I would then not be correct to then call you a liar, because in all lijelyhood you do in fact believe that my veliefvis false.

And with good sound reason. Because you cannot demonstrate ONE SINGLE THING I said about Arbery that anybody in their right mind would consider "an attack", and - to top it off - ONLY because he was black.
That is a gutless accusation without substantiation.

The problem CP is that you are not willing to even consider if why you are so strongly focused on those things that incriminate Arvery and excuse the shooter's might be some sort of racial thinking you are not entirely aware of.

I'm not INCRIMINATING Arbery in any way --- THAT IS A LIE.

why?

I have said REPEATEDLY why I am looking at ALL the facts -- it is your psychotic (in my opinion) obsession with seeing everything as RACIST that causes YOU to say stupid things like...

The ONLY reason you guys are entertaining this is because that 'fellow' was black. And you would not be carrying on like this if the fellow was white. And that is what reality is. Deny it all you want, but that is what the reality is.

You are CLEARLY stating as FACT something you allege, but cannot prove.

Is this how you approach climate science and corona virus discussions? NO WONDER nobody takes you seriously on that kind of stuff.

Jim, you have become a prophet of gloom and doom, a merchant of fear and a purveyor of false accusations.

You need help.

[Cow Poke]

My credibility is established by my honesty and my commitment to the truth.

I see you added that after posting. Keep telling yourself that, Jim, while making sweeping UNFOUNDED false accusations.

Your credibility is currently just above JimL's.

[oxmixmudd]

Ok, then you're not lying, you're simply uttering falsehoods. You don't know anything of significance about me, my life, my experiences. You have no valid basis for judging my motivations and beliefs. On top of that you don't get to demand others back up their claims when you have from the very start of this topic personally attacked anyone who raises a fact - just for discussion - that you don't like. And filling this thread with your unsupported claims that others are racist, or supporting racism. I have tried to have a good faith discussion with you, but you - and it IS a pattern with you - resort to personal smears and veiled attacks on the morality of people when you can't support your position with facts.


I am telling you here that I am not racist. Therefore when you say that I am, you are stating 'an opinion' about me that you have no basis for, and one that I am telling you is false. You have no support for your opinion apart from that you are convinced of it. It's an uncalled for personal attack.


Now that we've done with the semantics, stop implying that I am a racist because I want to look at all the data. If I am a racist, then you are a race-baiter, provoking violence and hatred between the races in America. Now what?

The problem maxvel is that in your mind a person cant be acting in a racist mannor unless they know that is what they are doing.

I'm saying it is possible to act and be motivated by racially motivated concepts and thoughts without being consciously aware of the fact that is what is happening.

I belive you when you declare "I am not racist". I believe that to the degree you understand what being racist is, you try to avoid being that.

I'm talking about elements you either dont know about, or you dismiss because the source of the information is itself a source you are biased against e g. A researcher who is 'liberal' politically.

And I have supported my claims. The simple fact the focus is on the victims flaws and not the shooters is evidence of racial bias. Especially given the absurdly aggressive actions taken by the shooters. The belief arbery was 'up to no good' expressed throughout the thread has no factual underpinnings. It rather was the innate - and well documented - fact that in our culture a black man doing something unexplained is far more likely to be seen as suspicious than a white man.

[oxmixmudd]

I see you added that after posting. Keep telling yourself that, Jim, while making sweeping UNFOUNDED false accusations.

Your credibility is currently just above JimL's.

CP - please dont try to pretend your assessment of my credibility is objective. I am usually right on these pages.and I admit I'm wrong when i've been shown I'm wrong. It is not my credibility that is in question here. It is the fact you are offended by my assessment of this thread's content, by my belief there are racial elements driving its content that might implicate you