Ahmaud Arbery; racist killing and attempted cover up.

[oxmixmudd]

Source?

The source was a witness at the scene, the third defendant in the case.

https://www.11alive.com/article/news...0-02d7cf2970f1

[oxmixmudd]

I don't remember the source, but I'm pretty sure it's true that the younger McMichael uttered the n-word after Arbery was shot. Of course some people are insisting that this is iron clad proof that the entire incident was racially motivated with no other factors coming into play (such as Arbery's own conduct), but I don't think that's a valid conclusion.

Arbery's own conduct, by that you of course mean jogging, oh and of course the stop at the house under construction where nothing was stolen - an action at least one other white couple and a group of kids in the neighborhood also did without fear of being chased by men in trucks with guns.

But you'll keep trying to pretend there was 'something suspicious' about Arbery till the cows come home, even though the only real difference between him and others is the color of his skin.

[Mountain Man]

Arbery's own conduct, by that you of course mean jogging

No.

oh and of course the stop at the house under construction where nothing was stolen

Trespassing, yes.

An action at least one other white couple and a group of kids in the neighborhood also did without fear of being chased by men in trucks with guns.

Unless you can show that these other trespassers were observed by the McMichaels, and that the McMichaels declined to take action for no reason other than the trespassers were white, then this is not relevant.

And you forget to mention that Arbery attacked the younger McMichael and attempted to wrestle the shotgun away, which was also a contributing factor.

That the McMichaels pursued Arbery and ultimately caused his death is not debatable, but it is, of course, more complicated than that, and certainly more complicated than you are willing to admit.

[whag]

No.


Trespassing, yes.


Unless you can show that these other trespassers were observed by the McMichaels, and that the McMichaels declined to take action for no reason other than the trespassers were white, then this is not relevant.

And you forget to mention that Arbery attacked the younger McMichael and attempted to wrestle the shotgun away, which was also a contributing factor.

That the McMichaels pursued Arbery and ultimately caused his death is not debatable, but it is, of course, more complicated than that, and certainly more complicated than you are willing to admit.

I wonder if a man who called the man he killed the n-word would have given chase to white trespassers. Expect any prosecutor worth his/her salt to pursue that line of inquiry.

[Mountain Man]

I wonder if a man who called the man he killed the n-word would have given chase to white trespassers. Expect any prosecutor worth his/her salt to pursue that line of inquiry.

I'm sure they will try, but I suspect they'll need more than an excited utterance to establish motive.

[whag]

I'm sure they will try, but I suspect they'll need more than an excited utterance to establish motive.

Yup, they’ll probably also need video evidence of a white man killing an unarmed black man.

[oxmixmudd]

And you forget to mention that Arbery attacked the younger McMichael and attempted to wrestle the shotgun away, which was also a contributing factor.

... while under armed and violent attack by the McMichael's, Arbery tried to wrestle the shotgun away and was killed during the struggle.

Fixed it for you.

The correction is the unbiased description of what actually occurred.

For now I'll leave the source of your bias unnamed.

[whag]

Fixed it for you.

The correction is the unbiased description of what actually occurred.

For now I'll leave the source of your bias unnamed.

Mountain Man can’t fathom why an unarmed black man would defend himself from an armed and attacking white man. Let that sink in.

[Mountain Man]

Yup, they’ll probably also need video evidence of a white man killing an unarmed black man.

Except that same video evidence also shows the black man attacking the white man, punching him in the head, and trying to wrestle the shotgun away prior to any shots being fired, so I'm not sure how eager the prosecution will be to show it in court. But they pretty much have to, because if they don't, you can be sure the defense will, so it would be smart to try and get in front of it so it doesn't become their "OJ tries on the glove" moment where a key piece of evidence ends up exonerating the defendant because the prosecution botched the presentation and let the defense take control of the narrative.

[Mountain Man]

Fixed it for you.

The correction is the unbiased description of what actually occurred.

For now I'll leave the source of your bias unnamed.

I find it hilarious that you think your description is unbiased.

[Mountain Man]

Mountain Man can’t fathom why an unarmed black man would defend himself from an armed and attacking white man. Let that sink in.

I can fathom a number of reasons why -- fear, anger, cockiness -- I just think it was an incredibly stupid thing to do, especially when he had to cover a considerable distance to do so. If the McMichaels were really intent on straight up murdering a black man, then they had ample opportunity to do so as he approached, which is one of the reasons I don't think it was their intent.

[JimL]

Mountain Man can’t fathom why an unarmed black man would defend himself from an armed and attacking white man. Let that sink in.

He must believe that the (ridiculous) in my opinion stand your ground law only applies to the man with the gun.

[Watermelon]

Except that same video evidence also shows the black man attacking the white man, punching him in the head, and trying to wrestle the shotgun away prior to any shots being fired, so I'm not sure how eager the prosecution will be to show it in court. But they pretty much have to, because if they don't, you can be sure the defense will, so it would be smart to try and get in front of it so it doesn't become their "OJ tries on the glove" moment where a key piece of evidence ends up exonerating the defendant because the prosecution botched the presentation and let the defense take control of the narrative.

The key part you seem to miss is that at the moment the video is taken, the victim is already under attack by the defendants. They have been pursuing him and cutting off his routes for some time already putting the victim in a threatened state. Thats why video supports the victim defending himself and not initiating the altercation.

[Leonhard]

5) At some time very soon after (4), the McMichaels and one other neighbour (Bryan??) got in their vehicles and followed / chased Arbery

Considering the testimony of senior McMichael, and the testimony and recordings from Bryan, it is clear that they were giving chase. The notion that they were merely following him or had driven up ahead and parked to passively observe where he was going doesn’t fit the descriptions.

The senior McMichael had called out to his son that he had spotted 'that guy', and the young McMichael had gotten his shotgun while senior McMichael had gotten his gun. Then they’d driven after Arbery in a truck, and cut him off unsuccessfully. At some point they call Bryan their neighbor in who tries to help them cut him off with his car. This sequence of events, them cutting him off with their vehicle, telling him to stop, Arbery changing direction and running another way, happens at least two times before the final confrontation.

This is all from the testimony senior McMichael gave the police, which I linked to in this thread.

I don’t think this can be called merely them following and observing Arbery.

At least any analysis of the events should, I think, proceed with them chasing after him, with the intend to stop him and do something with him (talk/arrest/kill/etc).

Or do you find that their behavior is consistent with merely wanting to observe?

[Leonhard]

Well, one has to try... (Yes, I know, it is JimL).

No source, no fact, no response needed.

I'd be much more convinced by a pattern of documented behaviour BEFORE the incident than a heat of the moment curse someone utters after being in a life-threatening situation.

I’m trying to find a source as well. Though I don’t think it can be easily brushed off. It is evidence that needs to be considered if it is real. And might cause an investigation into both McMichaels history.

I personally have no idea whether they were racist. I think racism plays more into why Arbery was suspect from the camera recordings if other people had been observed there.

I focus more on the irresponsible actions of the McMichaels.