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Thread: The Honest Atheist?

  1. #41
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    To me, if they honestly believe that God doesn't exist they seem to have an excuse. Where if like Paul suggests, that knowledge of God is clear for all to see and they suppress that knowledge, then they are guilty.
    Even if they honestly believe God doesn't exist, that doesn't give them an excuse to sin. As Romans 2 says, God gives everyone a conscience to know good from evil. So when they do what they know in their heart to be wrong, their conscience accuses them and they will face judgment for those sins.

  2. #42
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Also I'm still not certain that this phrase is saying that atheists know that God exists, it seems to be addressing the kinds of people who suppress the Christians from evangelizing. The wicked romans in fact. St. Paul goes into all the details about their depravity.
    The kinds of people Paul writes about in the end of chapter 1 and continues into chapter 2 are all mankind (except Jews, which he takes up separately to show that even though they have the written Law, they still fail to live up to it) who live in rebellion against God. This is clear from what he writes in chapter 3:


    Scripture Verse: Romans 3:9-20 ESV


    9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written:

    “None is righteous, no, not one;
    11 no one understands;
    no one seeks for God.
    12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
    no one does good,
    not even one.”
    13 “Their throat is an open grave;
    they use their tongues to deceive.”
    “The venom of asps is under their lips.”
    14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
    15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
    16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
    17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
    18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

    19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

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    "For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin"

    Already denoting something he wrote previously, and the only possible thing he can be referring to is back to chapter 1 and onwards, when he accuses people of forsaking the knowledge of God for vain idols, debauchery and all sorts of other sins, and to his condemnation of the Jew's vain attempt to attain righteousness through the written Law and their hypocrisy in trying to teach others God's will when they're unable to live up to it themselves. "All, both Jews and Greeks" is obviously Paul's way of speaking of humanity as a whole. It doesn't literally mean just Jews and Greeks.

    In other words, "the kinds of people" Paul speak about in chapter 1 are not just "those who suppress the Christians from evangelizing", it is mankind as a whole, separated from, and in rebellion to God.

  3. Amen Cow Poke, seer amen'd this post.

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