Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Denmark lockdown is being lifted.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Denmark lockdown is being lifted.

    Denmark on a precautionary principle, chose to lockdown as it was estimated that our hospitals would be flooded with patients. Then it turned out that social distancing and increased hygiene works very well to keep down the spread, so we don't overburden our healthcare service, and it also became clear that a vaccine is still more than a year away.

    Based upon this, and other observations our government announced that social distancing is reduced to three feet rather than six. Stores and public places like museums as well as outdoor sports are to reopen, though there are still some precautionary steps at work. School is now opening completely again. My own job is to reopen its offices on the 18th.

    At Netcompany we'll be keeping three feet distances, there'll be plenty of handwashing. Lunch in the cafeteria has been spaced out over a longer period and you have to sit at every other seat, etc... All very reasonable and sensible precautionary measures that we are all happy to comply with.

    I think the precautionary reaction was sensible at the time, but now that we've gotten a better understanding it makes sense to open up more.

  • #2
    Great news, Leon - go get 'em!!!
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Leonhard, do you have a sense of why the cases haven't dropped to zero despite a fairly long lockdown? What sorts of things seem to have perpetuated cases?

      It's intriguing to me that some countries with lockdowns seem to have eradicated the virus, while others have merely lowered their case numbers.

      What is the situation regarding cross-border travel in Denmark? Do you have potentially infected people constantly coming into the country?
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        Leonhard, do you have a sense of why the cases haven't dropped to zero despite a fairly long lockdown? What sorts of things seem to have perpetuated cases?

        It's intriguing to me that some countries with lockdowns seem to have eradicated the virus, while others have merely lowered their case numbers.

        What is the situation regarding cross-border travel in Denmark? Do you have potentially infected people constantly coming into the country?
        I don’t believe a word from China when they say they’ve eradicated corona in their country. As for other countries while infection rates have gone down they haven’t ceased entirely and it is impossible to contain.

        Since corona virus is practically impossible to contain, then it’ll only stop when it has gone through the population. Therefore we want it to do so at a higher rate than it does now, but not so high that it overwhelms the health services.

        By changing strategy this can be done within a year.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Leonhard, do you have a sense of why the cases haven't dropped to zero despite a fairly long lockdown? What sorts of things seem to have perpetuated cases?
          Idiots.

          In the UK, I suspect we have some continued infections due to occasional close encounters in supermarkets, during essential activities such as food distribution, emergency plumbing and vehicle maintenance. There have also been cases of medical workers and care workers transmitting the disease unwittingly.

          But there are also people simply ignoring the isolation guidelines - home hairdressers and their clients, community barbecues, drinking parties, family and mistress visits. Yesterday's government briefing included a survey that 80% of the population were only going on essential errands and 92% were avoiding contact with vulnerable people - suggesting 20% / 8% aren't. The main reason is idiots.
          Last edited by Roy; 05-15-2020, 02:23 AM.
          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
            As for other countries while infection rates have gone down they haven’t ceased entirely and it is impossible to contain.
            Um...?
            NZ.jpg
            HK.jpg

            Since corona virus is practically impossible to contain, then it’ll only stop when it has gone through the population.
            The universal assumption in my country, which I have never heard anyone here suggest might be flawed (hence am a bit baffled by your exact opposite assumptions), is that we will eliminate it entirely. That assumption seems to have been well-validated by the data, because introducing a lockdown led to an exponential decay trend in case numbers, and we are now ticking over at 0 cases per day despite higher than ever levels of testing.

            The only serious disagreement in my country is over the rapid lift of the lockdown so soon after the cases hit zero. I think this is likely to lead to flare-ups in parts of the country that will require a few parts of the country be locked back down until it is actually eliminated.

            Therefore we want it to do so at a higher rate than it does now, but not so high that it overwhelms the health services.
            Hmm. A lot of people will die.
            Last edited by Starlight; 05-15-2020, 02:28 AM.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Roy View Post
              Idiots.

              In the UK, I suspect we have some continued infections due to occasional close encounters in supermarkets, during essential activities such as food distribution, emergency plumbing and vehicle maintenance. There have also been cases of medical workers and care workers transmitting the disease unwittingly.

              But there are also people simply ignoring the isolation guidelines - home hairdressers and their clients, community barbecues, drinking parties, family and mistress visits. Yesterday's government briefing included a survey that 80% of the population were only going on essential errands and 92% were avoiding contact with vulnerable people - suggesting 20% / 8% aren't. The main reason is idiots.
              Quarantines were never meant to eliminate the Chicom coronavirus. They were meant to flatten the curve so that hospitals and care givers wouldn't be completely overwhelmed. The consequence of this action is that it will prolong the pandemic since when you flatten the curve you lengthen it.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Quarantines were never meant to eliminate the Chicom coronavirus. They were meant to flatten the curve so that hospitals and care givers wouldn't be completely overwhelmed. The consequence of this action is that it will prolong the pandemic since when you flatten the curve you lengthen it.
                The quarantines in Iceland, New Zealand and Taiwan have effectively eliminated the virus from those places. Countries which are attempting to flatten the curve (which unfortunately includes the UK) are doing so because the response was too late and/or too weak to prevent the virus spreading to the point where it was non-containable.
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Roy View Post
                  The quarantines in Iceland, New Zealand and Taiwan have effectively eliminated the virus from those places. Countries which are attempting to flatten the curve (which unfortunately includes the UK) are doing so because the response was too late and/or too weak to prevent the virus spreading to the point where it was non-containable.
                  Those quarantines were of an island, not placing everyone under house arrest.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    The quarantines in Iceland, New Zealand and Taiwan have effectively eliminated the virus from those places.
                    Those quarantines were of an island, not placing everyone under house arrest.
                    Wrong. The three countries did follow different policies, but New Zealand's main 5-week quarantine period was roughly similar to house arrest. It was absolutely not a case of simply closing the borders as if quarantining an island. Perhaps Taiwan's policies could be described like that however, as they mostly went with border closures combined with high-tech contact tracing while still mostly allowing business as normal. Iceland was somewhere between the two AFAICT.
                    Last edited by Starlight; 05-15-2020, 05:13 AM.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Quarantines were never meant to eliminate the Chicom coronavirus. They were meant to flatten the curve so that hospitals and care givers wouldn't be completely overwhelmed.
                      The goal in New Zealand was always elimination. Some of the media here started using the 'flatten the curve' phrase at the start of the lockdown, not really understanding what it meant, and the government immediately informed them that flattening the curve wasn't the goal, elimination was.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Those quarantines were of an island, not placing everyone under house arrest.
                        So? Those quarantines were meant to, and did, eliminate the virus in those countries. Your claim that "Quarantines were never meant to eliminate the Chicom coronavirus" is incorrect, because some of them were.

                        Unfortunately the UK government, which could have done the same as Iceland, New Zealand and Taiwan, did not respond quickly enough.
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          Wrong. The three countries did follow different policies, but New Zealand's main 5-week quarantine period was roughly similar to house arrest.
                          So was Taiwan's, for travellers.
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            I don’t believe a word from China when they say they’ve eradicated corona in their country. As for other countries while infection rates have gone down they haven’t ceased entirely and it is impossible to contain.

                            Since corona virus is practically impossible to contain, then it’ll only stop when it has gone through the population. Therefore we want it to do so at a higher rate than it does now, but not so high that it overwhelms the health services.

                            By changing strategy this can be done within a year.
                            If anyone [read "Republicans"] in the USA says this, they are accused of wanting to kill people. There is no way to keep a country in lockdown till a vaccine is developed.

                            My firm has started opening too. Right now it is only people who have to be in the office to do their job. In phase 2, it will be anyone who wants to be in the office, and phase 3 will be full reopening except for people who are vulnerable, such as myself. And they are closing down the public areas (lunch rooms), and enforcing social distancing and wearing masks. I don't think they realize how difficult it will be to wear a mask all day. That has it's own health problems.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              The goal in New Zealand was always elimination. Some of the media here started using the 'flatten the curve' phrase at the start of the lockdown, not really understanding what it meant, and the government immediately informed them that flattening the curve wasn't the goal, elimination was.
                              all it takes is one person to start it all over again. Just like it started in the first place.

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                              16 responses
                              175 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post One Bad Pig  
                              Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                              53 responses
                              411 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Mountain Man  
                              Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                              25 responses
                              114 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                              33 responses
                              198 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Roy
                              by Roy
                               
                              Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                              84 responses
                              383 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post JimL
                              by JimL
                               
                              Working...
                              X