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Thread: B Theory Of Time...

  1. #271
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    I wouldn't say that a god could not have forknowledge under A-theory, but if he did it would negate free will. If he knew the future then it would have to be that he engineered it to unwind that way. Like an elaborate set up of dominos, they will fall in the future the way they were set up to, determined beforehand to, fall. Free will couldn't exist within either theory of time if god has foreknowledge
    Yes, that's the claim. I've yet to see an actual argument to support it.

  2. #272
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    Yes, that's the claim. I've yet to see an actual argument to support it.
    If you have an alternative logical argument that can refute the above, I would honestly love to see it.

  3. #273
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    If you have an alternative logical argument that can refute the above, I would honestly love to see it.
    I don't need an argument to reject something that is offered as a bare assertion.

  4. #274
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    I don't need an argument to reject something that is offered as a bare assertion.
    You will need to explain HOW God knows what you will do 10 years from now if you have free will and everything isn't predetermined.

    Under B theory, God could know because the future exists and he can see what you freely choose to do 10 years from now. Under A-theory, there is no way for him to know if you have free will. Prophesy would be impossible unless he made it happen. That's just common sense.

  5. Amen JimL amen'd this post.
  6. #275
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    You will need to explain HOW God knows what you will do 10 years from now if you have free will and everything isn't predetermined.

    Under B theory, God could know because the future exists and he can see what you freely choose to do 10 years from now. Under A-theory, there is no way for him to know if you have free will. Prophesy would be impossible unless he made it happen. That's just common sense.
    The problem I have with this line of reasoning is that it seems to be almost perfectly comparable to the kind of argument atheists/skeptics put forward when they bring up Euthyphro's dilemma and claim a good God and evil cannot co-exist in the same reality. I do not need to explain HOW God can be good and still allow evil to exist in the world in order to be justified to reject the Euthyphro dilemma; in the same way I'm not obligated to explain how God can know the future and free will still be possible under A-theory. At least not as long as "It's just common sense" is the strongest argument that has been offered so far. My inability to explain the possibility of foreknowledge and free will co-existing under A-theory does not actually demonstrate that it is impossible.

  7. #276
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    from our current point in time we say "was" -- "is" indicated he is somehow alive in 2020. He isn't. Neither in A or B time.

    If you could build a time machine and go back to 2019, you would see your friend alive and conscious.
    I'm not asking about our point of view - is he still alive in 2019 somewhere in the universe? Does the year 2019 still exist?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  8. #277
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    The problem I have with this line of reasoning is that it seems to be almost perfectly comparable to the kind of argument atheists/skeptics put forward when they bring up Euthyphro's dilemma and claim a good God and evil cannot co-exist in the same reality. I do not need to explain HOW God can be good and still allow evil to exist in the world in order to be justified to reject the Euthyphro dilemma; in the same way I'm not obligated to explain how God can know the future and free will still be possible under A-theory. At least not as long as "It's just common sense" is the strongest argument that has been offered so far. My inability to explain the possibility of foreknowledge and free will co-existing under A-theory does not actually demonstrate that it is impossible.
    Well if you can't even come up with a reasonable theory on how free will could exist under A-theory and God still be able to know the future that doesn't even exist, then I think my argument stands. You can't just throw your hands in the air and say "well just because I can't answer you doesn't mean it can't be true anyway!"

    By the way, I knew you would say that!


    Look, I think I am just about done here, I seem to be getting asked the same thing over and over and answering the same answer over in over in slightly different ways. You are under no obligation to believe in the B-theory (or A theory)

  9. #278
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    I'm not asking about our point of view - is he still alive in 2019 somewhere in the universe? Does the year 2019 still exist?
    Yes. Like I said, if you had a time machine, you could go to 2019 and it would be just as "real" as 2020 is to you right now.

  10. #279
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Well if you can't even come up with a reasonable theory on how free will could exist under A-theory and God still be able to know the future that doesn't even exist, then I think my argument stands. You can't just throw your hands in the air and say "well just because I can't answer you doesn't mean it can't be true anyway!"

    By the way, I knew you would say that!

    But I'm not actually seeing an argument. I'm seeing a string of assertions, but I'm not actually seeing an attempt to show that there is any logical interconnection between them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Look, I think I am just about done here, I seem to be getting asked the same thing over and over and answering the same answer over in over in slightly different ways. You are under no obligation to believe in the B-theory (or A theory)
    That's fair.

  11. #280
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    It isn't a spotlight on one part of your life. You feel that "spotlight" at every instant of your life. You felt it when you were making that post, didn't you? And you feel it now when you are reading this post. You feel it at every part of your life. It doesn't "disappear"
    It doesn't disappear but it is a "Now." Why is there a "Now"? What in physics supports it?

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