B Theory Of Time...

[Sparko]

So, what then are all the other we's that you say also exist in the past and the future, what are they doing? Are they all experiencing their own present? This evening when you are having dinner, will the past you still be experiencing having breakfast in the past? And is your future you already there in the future experiencing having lunch in their present?

You keep thinking of "them" and that "they" are all "doing" things "at the same time" as you.

There is only one "time" and you exist in it for a certain number of "moments" - it's you all the way, from birth to death, and you only experience each moment "once" at that particular moment in time. It's all you. And every moment of your time you think of as "now" - You thought it was "now" when you wrote your post, right? and you think it is "now" when you are reading my post. Both instances, it was YOU.

[Sparko]

So the 1969 me is not in the universe experiencing 1969? If this is really like the frames of a film that frame still exists.

In 1969, you did what you did in 1969. If you "experienced" anything, then you experienced it. In B-theory, you exist in 1969. If I could build a time machine and go back to 1969, I could meet you and experience it with you (we are talking doobies, right? ). Although, we know that didn't happen, because if it did, you would remember it. Unless I used my flashy thing and made you forget.

[Sparko]

God may not know what happens in the future, beyond highly accurate predictions. He could still be omniscient.

No, that wouldn't be omniscient. He would just be just really good at guessing. It would also mean your actions are entirely predictable and you have no free will.

[seer]

In 1969, you did what you did in 1969. If you "experienced" anything, then you experienced it. In B-theory, you exist in 1969. If I could build a time machine and go back to 1969, I could meet you and experience it with you (we are talking doobies, right? ). Although, we know that didn't happen, because if it did, you would remember it. Unless I used my flashy thing and made you forget.

Sparko like the fame of the film my 1969 frame still exists in this universe. It really is not a past event like with A theory. All the millions frames of my life exist together.

[Sparko]

Sparko like the fame of the film my 1969 frame still exists in this universe. It really is not a past event like with A theory. All the millions frames of my life exist together.

It IS a past event. To you today. To you in 1968, it's your future.

[seer]

It IS a past event. To you today. To you in 1968, it's your future.

But those frames still exist, just as every frame of my life - literally millions of them. And it really is not a past event because with B Theory time is TENSELESS.

[JimL]

You keep thinking of "them" and that "they" are all "doing" things "at the same time" as you.

I keep thinking it because that is what B-theory says, Sparko. All of time is real in B-theory, therefore every point in time is just as real as every other. The past you is still experiencing the past you in his "now" just as the present you is experiencing his present "now" and the future you is experiencing his future "now." I realize that doesn't make a whole lot of common sense, but in B-theory every point in time is real and coextent with every other point in time. Just like every cell on a reel of film is just as real and coextent with every other cell on the reel. Saying that there are different points in time doesn't change the fact that they are all real.

There is only one "time" and you exist in it for a certain number of "moments" - it's you all the way, from birth to death, and you only experience each moment "once" at that particular moment in time. It's all you. And every moment of your time you think of as "now" - You thought it was "now" when you wrote your post, right? and you think it is "now" when you are reading my post. Both instances, it was YOU.

That isn't B-theory, that's A-theory. In B-theory the past and future are just as real as the present, there is supposedly a "you" in the past and "you" in the future that is just as real as the "you" in the present. Only in A-theory is the present you the only real you.

[Sparko]

But those frames still exist, just as every frame of my life - literally millions of them. And it really is not a past event because with B Theory time is TENSELESS.

So then the term "still exists" is meaningless. I don't know how many times we can explain the same thing over and over.

If you are a ruler, each moment of your life would be a line on that ruler. The entire ruler is YOU, from birth (1/16th of Inch 1) to death (12 inch mark) Each mark is it's own mark, but only exists once. To say that inch 1 still exists is nonsense, because YOU exist from 0 to 12 inches. The marks just represent one part of that life.

[Sparko]

I keep thinking it because that is what B-theory says, Sparko. All of time is real in B-theory, therefore every point in time is just as real as every other. The past you is still experiencing the past you in his "now" just as the present you is experiencing his present "now" and the future you is experiencing his future "now." I realize that doesn't make a whole lot of common sense, but in B-theory every point in time is real and coextent with every other point in time. Just like every cell on a reel of film is just as real and coextent with every other cell on the reel. Saying that there are different points in time doesn't change the fact that they are all real.

That isn't B-theory, that's A-theory. In B-theory the past and future are just as real as the present, there is supposedly a "you" in the past and "you" in the future that is just as real as the "you" in the present. Only in A-theory is the present you the only real you.

It is exactly like A-theory, except the past and future are just as real as this moment. I mean this moment, there, no not THAT one, no, this one, yeah, oops, no now THIS one.

[JimL]

So then the term "still exists" is meaningless. I don't know how many times we can explain the same thing over and over.

If you are a ruler, each moment of your life would be a line on that ruler. The entire ruler is YOU, from birth (1/16th of Inch 1) to death (12 inch mark) Each mark is it's own mark, but only exists once. To say that inch 1 still exists is nonsense, because YOU exist from 0 to 12 inches. The marks just represent one part of that life.

But each mark on the ruler does not only exist once, it exists forever, and has existed ever since the ruler has existed. That's where you are confusing B-theory with A-theory.

[JimL]

It is exactly like A-theory, except the past and future are just as real as this moment. I mean this moment, there, no not THAT one, no, this one, yeah, oops, no now THIS one.

No, they are not exactly alike, that's why they are different theory's. In A-theory only the present is real, in B-theory all of time, and therefore all events in time are real.

[Sparko]

No, they are not exactly alike, that's why they are different theory's. In A-theory only the present is real, in B-theory all of time, and therefore all events in time are real.

So you think an entirely new universe is created from nothing at every moment? You don't think the future exists, and yet a split second later, there it is! Poof! out of nothing!

[seer]

So you think an entirely new universe is created from nothing at every moment? You don't think the future exists, and yet a split second later, there it is! Poof! out of nothing!

That is not what he is saying Sparko: "But each mark on the ruler does not only exist once, it exists forever, and has existed ever since the ruler has existed. That's where you are confusing B-theory with A-theory."

[JimL]

So you think an entirely new universe is created from nothing at every moment? You don't think the future exists, and yet a split second later, there it is! Poof! out of nothing!

I didn't suggest that I believe in B-theory, but if you do believe it to be the correct theory of time, then that is what you need believe. In B-theory, all of the events in all of time are real. The future doesn't come into existence, but just like the markings on a ruler they are all real. You obviously do not believe in B-theory, because you believe that the universe is actually expanding and it's future is coming into being as it expands. In B-theory, that the universe is expanding is an illusion, all of spacetime, it's past, present and future are real.

[Sparko]

That is not what he is saying Sparko: "But each mark on the ruler does not only exist once, it exists forever, and has existed ever since the ruler has existed. That's where you are confusing B-theory with A-theory."

You think the ruler only exists at one of the lines at a time, but then the next line comes into existence and the last one disappears. Constant creation and destruction.