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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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B Theory Of Time...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Entropy. Time only works in one direction. Each frame of you is created from an addition of all previous frames, so your brain contains all of the past memories, but that frame is still "behind" the future frames of you, so it can't have the memories of the future. Time is a dimension which has directions, back and forward. Like a ruler, each line is higher than the ones to the left, but lower than the ones to the right. 1...2...3...4...5... - It all exists at the same time, but 2 is always lower than 3 but higher than 1, etc.
    Right, so now explain exactly what the future frames, as you call them, are. They already exist even though seer is only experiencing the present, right? So, what exactly are those future frames and why if seer exists in those future frames, does he only experience the presnt?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      The reason you have access to the past but not the future is because of the way our memories work, they are additive and the way time works. It is one way.
      But that is not the B theory of time.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        Your 2026 version of you is thinking the very same thing.
        And were all of the versions of seer, the past, present and future versions of him, thinking the same thing in their specific places along the time line before seer even existed?
        Last edited by JimL; 05-18-2020, 08:05 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          But that is not the B theory of time.
          Yes it is. see my ruler example.

          by the way, as long as JimL is in here I won't be. You can't have a decent discussion on the topic with him in here. He has zero understanding of time or free will and just derails the topic into nonsense.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            Yes it is. see my ruler example.

            by the way, as long as JimL is in here I won't be. You can't have a decent discussion on the topic with him in here. He has zero understanding of time or free will and just derails the topic into nonsense.
            But your example requires liner time, which doesn't exist in B theory.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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            • #21
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              But your example requires liner time, which doesn't exist in B theory.
              Just like a film strip has a beginning and an end, yet all frames exists at the same time.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                Just like a film strip has a beginning and an end, yet all frames exists at the same time.
                When it's said that all moments in time are just as real, it means they are all active, not just sitting there like unprojected frames on the film strip.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                  Under B-theory we wouldn't exist in every moment of time, but rather, every moment of time in which you exist would be equally real. So the you that exist in the past, and the you that exist in the future are all equally as real as the you that exists in the present.

                  I think one way to look at moments of time under B-theory would be to look at time kind of like a roll of film, where each frame is a separate moment of time. In the same way, under at least some versions (I'm not sure if this is a feature of all theories of time that qualifies as being a B-theory, or only a subset of them) of B-theory, a moment in time would be like a snapshot, or freeze frame of the universe at a specific time.
                  But how could they be equally real? "Equal" and "real" in what sense? Why would one 'snapshot' be given such priority experientially over all the others? And why all the arrows of time, such as memory and entropy, if tenselessness were the true reality? If that were the case, it seems that time would be smoothly symmetrical like space and not uni-directional. Also, consciousness and our individual sense of 'self' seems intimately bound up with a strong intuitive A-Series sense. I think Eddington said about free will, but it also applies here, something to the effect that if he could be deceived about the very thing that he himself is, then he wouldn't know where the beginnings of reliable knowledge could be found. Perhaps they're both real (the A and the B Series), but like consciousness and physical concepts, we humans may lack the conceptual apparatus to reconcile them.
                  Last edited by Jim B.; 05-18-2020, 04:29 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Just like a film strip has a beginning and an end, yet all frames exists at the same time.
                    But there is no progression of event with B Theory. Everything exists simultaneously, all frames are in view at once.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Jim B. View Post
                      But how could they be equally real? "Equal" and "real" in what sense? Why would one 'snapshot' be given such priority experientially over all the others? And why all the arrows of time, such as memory and entropy, if tenselessness were the true reality? If that were the case, it seems that time would be smoothly symmetrical like space and not uni-directional. Also, consciousness and our individual sense of 'self' seems intimately bound up with a strong intuitive A-Series sense. I think Eddington said about free will, but it also applies here, something to the effect that if he could be deceived about the very thing that he himself is, then he wouldn't know where the beginnings of reliable knowledge could be found. Perhaps they're both real (the A and the B Series), but like consciousness and physical concepts, we humans may lack the conceptual apparatus to reconcile them.
                      These are all reasons why I don't hold to the B-series theory of time. Or at least why I don't think a pure B-series of time is likely to be true.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        When it's said that all moments in time are just as real, it means they are all active, not just sitting there like unprojected frames on the film strip.
                        I am ignoring you in this thread Jimberly. Your understanding of time and physics is so abysmal, it is not worth my time to respond.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          But there is no progression of event with B Theory. Everything exists simultaneously, all frames are in view at once.
                          Just like in a movie film all frames exist "simultaneously", but there is still a progression of the events in the movie. The people in each frame only know what happened in the previous frames (their past), not the future ones

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Just like in a movie film all frames exist "simultaneously", but there is still a progression of the events in the movie. The people in each frame only know what happened in the previous frames (their past), not the future ones
                            Why is there a progression of events? Why is there any progression of anything if time is static?
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Why is there a progression of events? Why is there any progression of anything if time is static?
                              it's not static from our point of view. Your brain adds new information to it, moment by moment. But each moment is just as real as the next. Do you think that the moment when you started this thread wasn't as real as this one when you are reading this post?

                              Look back at what you did a week ago. From your point of view it all happened already, right? Every decision you made a week ago is "fixed" and can't be changed. You believe the past is a "block universe" - that all past decisions are fixed, even though at the time you were in them, you didn't think your "future" decisions were fixed. Yet now you can see they were. Same goes for today if yourself from a week from now is looking back at today. He knows everything you will do.

                              You just need to realize that the past is no different than the present or future. It is all "the past" from the vantage point of someone at the far future end of time right? And that is what God has. An overall view of all time, from the beginning to end. Otherwise how would he know the future (to us)? The future has to exist in some way for God to know what will happen in it. Prophesy can't happen unless the universe is B-theory.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                I am ignoring you in this thread Jimberly. Your understanding of time and physics is so abysmal, it is not worth my time to respond.
                                So I guess you know more than everyone else here that also disagrees with your understanding B-Theory.

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