Originally posted by JimL
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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B Theory Of Time...
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postit's not static from our point of view. Your brain adds new information to it, moment by moment. But each moment is just as real as the next. Do you think that the moment when you started this thread wasn't as real as this one when you are reading this post?
Look back at what you did a week ago. From your point of view it all happened already, right? Every decision you made a week ago is "fixed" and can't be changed. You believe the past is a "block universe" - that all past decisions are fixed, even though at the time you were in them, you didn't think your "future" decisions were fixed. Yet now you can see they were. Same goes for today if yourself from a week from now is looking back at today. He knows everything you will do.
You just need to realize that the past is no different than the present or future. It is all "the past" from the vantage point of someone at the far future end of time right? And that is what God has. An overall view of all time, from the beginning to end. Otherwise how would he know the future (to us)? The future has to exist in some way for God to know what will happen in it. Prophesy can't happen unless the universe is B-theory.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postit's not static from our point of view. Your brain adds new information to it, moment by moment. But each moment is just as real as the next. Do you think that the moment when you started this thread wasn't as real as this one when you are reading this post?
You just need to realize that the past is no different than the present or future. It is all "the past" from the vantage point of someone at the far future end of time right? And that is what God has. An overall view of all time, from the beginning to end. Otherwise how would he know the future (to us)? The future has to exist in some way for God to know what will happen in it. Prophesy can't happen unless the universe is B-theory.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI know it is not static from our point of view because the B theory is wrong. In B theory there are no "moments" nor can there be.
You mean God could not know the future unless B Theory was true?
Unless... free will doesn't exist and God controls your every action and decision, so he knows what will happen because he controls what you will do. Then the A-theory of time could be correct.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf the future doesn't exist, then there is no knowledge of it that God can have. He could maybe predict things really well, but that wouldn't be the same as KNOWING. KNOWING implies something existing to be known.
Unless... free will doesn't exist and God controls your every action and decision, so he knows what will happen because he controls what you will do. Then the A-theory of time could be correct.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostAnd if the future does exist, then it existed before you even existed, which means you have no free will to change it. B-theory!
back to ignoring you (by my own free will)
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf the future doesn't exist, then there is no knowledge of it that God can have. He could maybe predict things really well, but that wouldn't be the same as KNOWING. KNOWING implies something existing to be known.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo, I don't see why you equate God's foreknowledge with the B Theory of time. God is outside of time. God could have knowledge of all events past present and future without the universe having static time.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostWhat if what is "fixed" in the timeline is because of your free will actions? Looking back at yesterday, what you ate for breakfast is "fixed" from today's point of view, but what you ate, was your own free will choice.
back to ignoring you (by my own free will)
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostWhat if what is "fixed" in the timeline is because of your free will actions? Looking back at yesterday, what you ate for breakfast is "fixed" from today's point of view, but what you ate, was your own free will choice.
back to ignoring you (by my own free will)Last edited by JimL; 05-19-2020, 02:53 PM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf he is "outside" of time, that presupposes that time is an object, a part of the universe. If the events in the future do not exist, then there is nothing for God to know. He can't be "outside" of nothing. That would be nonsense. If he knows the future, it has to exist for him to know it. We just can't see it yet. God can because he sees and exists at all times from the moment he created the universe till he ends it, if he does.
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Originally posted by Jim B. View PostWhat if time is an idea in the mind of God? He contains time, and thus us is outside of time in some sense, but we still have free will? God could timelessly know our free actions. It seems like His knowledge is compatible with our freedom.
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