B Theory Of Time...

[Sparko]

So I guess you know more than everyone else here that also disagrees with your understanding B-Theory.

No, but they can at least follow my posts and not make stupid comments.

[JimL]

it's not static from our point of view. Your brain adds new information to it, moment by moment. But each moment is just as real as the next. Do you think that the moment when you started this thread wasn't as real as this one when you are reading this post?

Look back at what you did a week ago. From your point of view it all happened already, right? Every decision you made a week ago is "fixed" and can't be changed. You believe the past is a "block universe" - that all past decisions are fixed, even though at the time you were in them, you didn't think your "future" decisions were fixed. Yet now you can see they were. Same goes for today if yourself from a week from now is looking back at today. He knows everything you will do.

You just need to realize that the past is no different than the present or future. It is all "the past" from the vantage point of someone at the far future end of time right? And that is what God has. An overall view of all time, from the beginning to end. Otherwise how would he know the future (to us)? The future has to exist in some way for God to know what will happen in it. Prophesy can't happen unless the universe is B-theory.

He's asking you what you mean by "the time you were in them." If he exists at every point along the time line of his life, then what do you mean by 'the time he was in them." He's in, he exists, at every point along the timeline of his life, according to B-theory!

[JimL]

No, but they can at least follow my posts and not make stupid comments.

I can follow your posts as well, I just don't think you understand B-theory the way you think you do.

[seer]

it's not static from our point of view. Your brain adds new information to it, moment by moment. But each moment is just as real as the next. Do you think that the moment when you started this thread wasn't as real as this one when you are reading this post?

I know it is not static from our point of view because the B theory is wrong. In B theory there are no "moments" nor can there be.

You just need to realize that the past is no different than the present or future. It is all "the past" from the vantage point of someone at the far future end of time right? And that is what God has. An overall view of all time, from the beginning to end. Otherwise how would he know the future (to us)? The future has to exist in some way for God to know what will happen in it. Prophesy can't happen unless the universe is B-theory.

You mean God could not know the future unless B Theory was true?

[Sparko]

I know it is not static from our point of view because the B theory is wrong. In B theory there are no "moments" nor can there be.



You mean God could not know the future unless B Theory was true?

If the future doesn't exist, then there is no knowledge of it that God can have. He could maybe predict things really well, but that wouldn't be the same as KNOWING. KNOWING implies something existing to be known.

Unless... free will doesn't exist and God controls your every action and decision, so he knows what will happen because he controls what you will do. Then the A-theory of time could be correct.

[JimL]

If the future doesn't exist, then there is no knowledge of it that God can have. He could maybe predict things really well, but that wouldn't be the same as KNOWING. KNOWING implies something existing to be known.

Unless... free will doesn't exist and God controls your every action and decision, so he knows what will happen because he controls what you will do. Then the A-theory of time could be correct.

And if the future does exist, then it existed before you even existed, which means you have no free will to change it. B-theory!

[Sparko]

And if the future does exist, then it existed before you even existed, which means you have no free will to change it. B-theory!

What if what is "fixed" in the timeline is because of your free will actions? Looking back at yesterday, what you ate for breakfast is "fixed" from today's point of view, but what you ate, was your own free will choice.

back to ignoring you (by my own free will)

[seer]

If the future doesn't exist, then there is no knowledge of it that God can have. He could maybe predict things really well, but that wouldn't be the same as KNOWING. KNOWING implies something existing to be known.

No, I don't see why you equate God's foreknowledge with the B Theory of time. God is outside of time. God could have knowledge of all events past present and future without the universe having static time.

[Sparko]

No, I don't see why you equate God's foreknowledge with the B Theory of time. God is outside of time. God could have knowledge of all events past present and future without the universe having static time.

If he is "outside" of time, that presupposes that time is an object, a part of the universe. If the events in the future do not exist, then there is nothing for God to know. He can't be "outside" of nothing. That would be nonsense. If he knows the future, it has to exist for him to know it. We just can't see it yet. God can because he sees and exists at all times from the moment he created the universe till he ends it, if he does.

[Jim B.]

What if what is "fixed" in the timeline is because of your free will actions? Looking back at yesterday, what you ate for breakfast is "fixed" from today's point of view, but what you ate, was your own free will choice.

back to ignoring you (by my own free will)

What if time is an idea in the mind of God? He contains time, and thus us is outside of time in some sense, but we still have free will? God could timelessly know our free actions. It seems like His knowledge is compatible with our freedom.

[JimL]

What if what is "fixed" in the timeline is because of your free will actions? Looking back at yesterday, what you ate for breakfast is "fixed" from today's point of view, but what you ate, was your own free will choice.

back to ignoring you (by my own free will)

Because you are confusing B-theory with A-theory. The past, which would be closed because it is past, because time flows, is A theory. But, B-theory says that the future, like the past in A-theory, is also closed, time doesn't flow, it's fixed. B-theory states that the future you already exists, and has always existed, that the future, your future, existed before you were even born, that what you feel now to be your past existed before you experienced it as the present, that all of time exists. There is no way to freely choose a future that is a reality in its own right prior to your experience of it.

[Jim B.]

If he is "outside" of time, that presupposes that time is an object, a part of the universe. If the events in the future do not exist, then there is nothing for God to know. He can't be "outside" of nothing. That would be nonsense. If he knows the future, it has to exist for him to know it. We just can't see it yet. God can because he sees and exists at all times from the moment he created the universe till he ends it, if he does.

Maybe for God, the 'outside' is the B-Series, and for the 'inside' it's the A-Series. They are both real, depending on the perspective.

[JimL]

Maybe for God, the 'outside' is the B-Series, and for the 'inside' it's the A-Series. They are both real, depending on the perspective.

That's a logical contradiction.

[Sparko]

What if time is an idea in the mind of God? He contains time, and thus us is outside of time in some sense, but we still have free will? God could timelessly know our free actions. It seems like His knowledge is compatible with our freedom.

That doesn't make sense to me.

[Sparko]

Maybe for God, the 'outside' is the B-Series, and for the 'inside' it's the A-Series. They are both real, depending on the perspective.

Then Time is actually B-theory and you just think it is A-theory.