What our wonderful Israeli allies are doing!

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

Nah, they don't commit terrorism and murder, do they? Tell that to the family of the American student they intentionally ran over with a bulldozer!

ABC News

Seattle PI

L.A. Times

Israeli news: Ha'aretz

In every one of these listings, including the Israeli news, it was indicated that this was not an accidental killing, that the driver was fully aware of the protestor's presence and actually ran over her twice before stopping.

I also find it interesting that the Israelis give three conflicting reasons for why they were razing Palestinian homes to the ground:

1) Looking for bombs. (yeah, right)
2) Blocking smuggling from Egypt (uh huh, sure)
3) A deterent against violent uprisings. (where I come from, when someone uses terror tactics to deter uprisings, we call that "terrorism.")

Of course, I am now expecting the usual flood of deluded "oh no, you're wrong because Israel can do no wrong" arguments.

[Solly]

Of course, I am now expecting the usual flood of deluded "oh no, you're wrong because Israel can do no wrong" arguments

Worse than that, Eirann, you'll be nibbled to death by one hundred dispensational geese!!

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

Today @ 02:41 AM
Solly:




Worse than that, Eirann, you'll be nibbled to death by one hundred dispensational geese!!

Oh, no, not geese! Please, God, no, not the geese!

*At UMSL, we have a major geese problem. Several years ago, part of the campus was dedicated as a sanctuary to endangered geese, but now that they're off the endangered list and have greatly multiplied, they still consider the campus home. I've seen them chase a student all the way around the library! It was quite funny, actually!*

[Piebald]

Yeah, I always thought that *accidental* running over of that poor girl was a tad suspicious...

[Ryokan]

that is very sad, although it is not the worst I have heard the Israeli's have done, or that we have done. But, I still maintain, as a standard policy, they don't murder civilians, just special cases. The Palestinain people need to repudiate suicide bombing before the Israelis will believe that talks can buy security.

[Solly]

Ryo, since the Palestinians are cramped into camps (where latest reports say some are living on $2 a day) I think it requires a gesture from the Israelis to show that they want the palestinians around, and value them as neighbours, instead of smashing their shops, closing the airport, stopping representatives travelling overseas, kicking them out of Jerusalem (and their jobs) every holiday. The palestinians were there already, it's the Israelis who started mass immigration and took over their land (hence, "Occupied Territories" in the title). It's the Israelis who employ overwhelming force against them. Until the Israelis stop with this "It's our land, God gave it to us" nothing will change.

[Ryokan]

they did offer to give it up though, Solly. The Palestinains started this intifada to see if they couldn't get more.
The Israelis are up to all this because they have completely lost faith in the peace rocess, and unless the Palestinains do something to convince the Israelis they just don't want to push them into the sea, Israel will get more and more vicious and irrational. Someone has to do something to restore faith in the process, or it will never end.

[Captain Ochre]

Today @ 08:21 AM
Eireann:

Nah, they don't commit terrorism and murder, do they? Tell that to the family of the American student they intentionally ran over with a bulldozer!

ABC News

Seattle PI

L.A. Times

Israeli news: Ha'aretz

In every one of these listings, including the Israeli news, it was indicated that this was not an accidental killing, that the driver was fully aware of the protestor's presence and actually ran over her twice before stopping.

I've read each account, and the reports do not indicate that it was an intentional killing. Rather, the accounts carry reports of those who claim that it was intentional.
Your presentation above seems unsuitably inaccurate, imo.

I also find it interesting that the Israelis give three conflicting reasons for why they were razing Palestinian homes to the ground:

1) Looking for bombs. (yeah, right)
2) Blocking smuggling from Egypt (uh huh, sure)
3) A deterent against violent uprisings. (where I come from, when someone uses terror tactics to deter uprisings, we call that "terrorism.")

How do those reasons "conflict"?

Of course, I am now expecting the usual flood of deluded "oh no, you're wrong because Israel can do no wrong" arguments.

"Israel can do no wrong."
Feel better, now?
It seems to me that you're putting spin on the story. Why is that?

[John Reece]

Until the Israelis stop with this "It's our land, God gave it to us" nothing will change.

Sad but so, Solly.

Zionism vs. Antisemitism

Two wrongs cannot produce a right.

Certainly not a "peace process" imposed by bullys with bribes upon two opposing parties who cannot/will not yield re the pathological positions at the heart of the problem: Zionism and Antisemitism.

It seems to me that Zionism is the root of the problem.

No false charge of antisemitism can change that fact.

The refusal on the part of the Jews to accept the One God sent to them as their Messiah has had, and will continue to have, terrible consequences.

Sad but so.

[Captain Ochre]

Today @ 01:36 PM
John Reece:



Sad but so, Solly.

Zionism vs. Antisemitism

Two wrongs cannot produce a right.

Certainly not a "peace process" imposed by bullys with bribes upon two opposing parties who cannot/will not yield re the pathological positions at the heart of the problem: Zionism and Antisemitism.

It seems to me that Zionism is the root of the problem.

Does the nation of Israel, as established in the wake of WW2, have a right to exist?
The nations surrounding Israel attacked them with the intention of wiping them off the map. Sorry, but I sympathize with their impulse to keep the land that they took from aggressor nations. That said, it is proper to use the land in bargaining for a peace settlement, and it is needlessly(?) antagonistic to continue placing settlers on the land if it's going to be given back.
Remember that the Arab nations wanted no independent Palestine when Israel was established as a modern nation.

No false charge of antisemitism can change that fact.

I tend to think that the Palestinians would be aided by a policy of not blowing up Israeli civilians. Every time somebody from the Palestinian region blows up an Israeli, this tends to reinforce the belief that somebody is making bombs in the area run the the PA.

[Pilgrim]

No real spin about it. I know you don't want to believe it but the sources I hear from in Israel tell me that it was indeed intentional.

I have never had reason to doubt their honesty before and so I have no reason to doubt it now.

[Captain Ochre]

BTW, if I understand correctly, the US has no formal alliance with Israel.
We do have one with Egypt, however (despite their treatment of the Coptics).

[spl_cadet]

According to the source I saw, she was standing right in front of the bulldozer as it was coming towards the building and then lost her footing and slipped beneath the bulldozer. Sounds more like she's a canidate for a Darwin Award than a victim of "Israeli violence."

[Captain Ochre]

Today @ 02:46 PM
Pilgrim:

I know you don't want to believe it but the sources I hear from in Israel tell me that it was indeed intentional.

Whether or not I want to believe it is immaterial. Do you dispute the facts that I affirmed(?): The authors of the news stories do not place any blame. They simply report eyewitness accounts where opinions are given. Eireann's presentation seemed to go beyond that. Disagree? If so, why?

I have never had reason to doubt their honesty before and so I have no reason to doubt it now.

I have no basis for judging the anecdotal accounts delivered personally to you.
If you told me about the accounts, then maybe I'd give you my opinion on their reliability (based on content). Or, maybe not.

"No real spin about it."
That's spin.

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

Today @ 08:54 AM
spl_cadet:

According to the source I saw, she was standing right in front of the bulldozer as it was coming towards the building and then lost her footing and slipped beneath the bulldozer. Sounds more like she's a canidate for a Darwin Award than a victim of "Israeli violence."

Read the reports again. According to witnesses, she was standing in front of the bulldozer then climbed up onto the scoop shovel. She was leaning in toward the cab shouting at the driver through a bullhorn! The driver watched her, then lurched the bulldozer forward, shaking her loose from the blade, then the blade came down onto her. He then dragged her for several feet, all the while knowing she was under the thing, then proceeded to run over her, then back up over her again. That doesn't sound like someone who was standing on the ground and accidentally slipped, as you suggested. Eyewitnesses say otherwise.