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Churches reclosing due to Coronavirus

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  • #76
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post
    What point?

    The one where you totally agreed, tacitly, with DO, and became rude and disrespectful to your fellow believers on this site? Even when I pointed out that I do not think that churches should go against what we are directed to do, and that I even would not visit my granddaughter on her birthday because I refuse to NOT BE CAREFUL?

    What exactly was your point, if not to totally ignore what I said and start attacking your fellow believers here?
    I dont think you have clue what I've said, or what I was getting at. I was going to ask you to re-read what I said, but it's been erased. You want me to give you credit when if you had given me credit in the first place you'd have never seen my words the way you did.

    That is my point.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      I dont think you have clue what I've said, or what I was getting at. I was going to ask you to re-read what I said, but it's been erased. You want me to give you credit when if you had given me credit in the first place you'd have never seen my words the way you did.

      That is my point.
      You are not making sense. The post of yours that I quoted where I made the statement about you giving us some credit was not erased and I read it quite clearly.

      Please try to do some proper reading of your own.


      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
        https://www.thedailybeast.com/over-1...a=twitter_page


        Over 1,200 pastors across California have vowed to reopen their churches for in-person services on May 31, a sweeping act of protest against Gov. Gavin Newsom’s restrictions on religious gatherings amid the coronavirus pandemic. Robert H. Tyler, a lawyer for a church that has sued the state over the shelter-in-place order, told Newsom that the pastors signed a “Declaration of Essentiality” in an effort to defy the state order and distinguish their churches as essential services. “This letter was not sent for the purposes of asking for permission,” Tyler wrote in a letter to the governor. “We believe you are attempting to act in the best interests of the state, but the restrictions have gone too far and for too long.”


        Here's a question I have--most of the things which happen in church could still take place while observing social distancing as long as the number of congregants was reduced. However, taking communion seems to be a tougher number to crack. Is it worthwhile to forgo communion for the time being? It seems distasteful to me for the government to regulate particular aspects of religious worship in that way.

        Anyway, I assume the churches will open and no mass arrests will happen. Hopefully they're mostly located in red counties far away from me.
        We had no problem whatsoever doing communion -- those in the congregation "in house" had their own bread and cup, and those at home were encouraged to come by the church and pick up their own bread and cup, or substitute as necessary from what they had at home.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
          https://www.thedailybeast.com/over-1...a=twitter_page


          Over 1,200 pastors across California have vowed to reopen their churches for in-person services on May 31, a sweeping act of protest against Gov. Gavin Newsom’s restrictions on religious gatherings amid the coronavirus pandemic. Robert H. Tyler, a lawyer for a church that has sued the state over the shelter-in-place order, told Newsom that the pastors signed a “Declaration of Essentiality” in an effort to defy the state order and distinguish their churches as essential services. “This letter was not sent for the purposes of asking for permission,” Tyler wrote in a letter to the governor. “We believe you are attempting to act in the best interests of the state, but the restrictions have gone too far and for too long.”


          Here's a question I have--most of the things which happen in church could still take place while observing social distancing as long as the number of congregants was reduced. However, taking communion seems to be a tougher number to crack. Is it worthwhile to forgo communion for the time being? It seems distasteful to me for the government to regulate particular aspects of religious worship in that way.

          Anyway, I assume the churches will open and no mass arrests will happen. Hopefully they're mostly located in red counties far away from me.
          We have used prefilled cups and wafers for some years due to many people having weakened immunity, etc. When we had to stay at home, it was simply a matter of them coming by to pick up their cups before Communion Sunday. It was harder to find the supplies after the quarantine began. I think these cups will still be in demand for the next several months.
          Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
            We have used prefilled cups and wafers for some years due to many people having weakened immunity, etc. When we had to stay at home, it was simply a matter of them coming by to pick up their cups before Communion Sunday. It was harder to find the supplies after the quarantine began. I think these cups will still be in demand for the next several months.
            My mother flew in to visit us two weeks before everything started shutting down and when she visited our church, she refused to take Communion. We asked her why later, and she said it was because somebody in front of us in line had taken the cup and directly drank from it, and she didn't feel comfortable with it in light of everything going on at the time (Covid was very much a known threat then). I think her caution was reasonable. That was selfish of the person who did that (I don't know who it was, I didn't see it happen).
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
              Freedom of religion doesn't prevent authorities from providing blood transfusions to the children of Jehovah's witnesses against their parents' will. There's increased scrutiny. It requires a court order. But when abridging a freedom is necessary to guard life, the courts have been permissive.

              I'd hope it wouldn't come to that. I think the best bet is to encourage the "forsake not" religious tradents to get creative. The science is incredibly simple here. Spread is exponential, and directly proportional to contacts, so reducing contacts is the entire game. If the base is greater than one, we're heading for over a million deaths in the US. If it's less than one, those people won't become infected. They won't die. It's all about that base, and the base is all about those contacts.

              My biggest concern is that those who are most at risk in these congregations are also those most motivated to gather together.
              This is why I went out of my way to specify "if it went on indefinitely". I don't think we're nearly at that point now. In some states, like California, the indication has been given that it may be an awful long time. When movie shoots are allowed to continue in that state, and the governor is openly discussing letting pro sports continue in the state, yet no end in sight for church lockdowns, even for churches such as Orthodox churches where contact is limited or nonexistent, religious freedom very much comes into play.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                We had no problem whatsoever doing communion -- those in the congregation "in house" had their own bread and cup, and those at home were encouraged to come by the church and pick up their own bread and cup, or substitute as necessary from what they had at home.
                There was a story from around here about a local pastor using a squirt gun to shoot communion wine into the mouths of the parishioners. I figure he coulda used a super soaker and they would've never had to leave their seats in the pews.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                  Freedom of religion doesn't prevent authorities from providing blood transfusions to the children of Jehovah's witnesses against their parents' will. There's increased scrutiny. It requires a court order. But when abridging a freedom is necessary to guard life, the courts have been permissive.
                  Surely you recognize the difference between an urgent immediate need where the person will almost certainly die if no action is taken and a precautionary measure.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    My mother flew in to visit us two weeks before everything started shutting down and when she visited our church, she refused to take Communion. We asked her why later, and she said it was because somebody in front of us in line had taken the cup and directly drank from it, and she didn't feel comfortable with it in light of everything going on at the time (Covid was very much a known threat then). I think her caution was reasonable. That was selfish of the person who did that (I don't know who it was, I didn't see it happen).
                    What's normal? When you say "the cup", is there only one? How would communion normally be done in your church?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      What's normal? When you say "the cup", is there only one? How would communion normally be done in your church?
                      We do it by intinction; you take a piece of the bread and dip it in the cup.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        We do it by intinction; you take a piece of the bread and dip it in the cup.
                        Ah, gotcha!
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          We do it by intinction; you take a piece of the bread and dip it in the cup.
                          The last service I attended that used that method before the lock down had the ministers with masks and gloves dip the bread into the wine and then hand it to the parishoner. About as safe possible, providing the parishoner does not breath on or touch the gloved hand giving them the bread. It keeps multiple hands off the bread pile, and as much as possible prevents spread from the ministers.

                          It's just not a ceremony designed for covid-19.

                          Our home church just does communion during the streaming broadcast with the parishoners getting their own bread/drink. This works fine for churches that do not require special blessing on the wine/host by the priest.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            I might add, just as a point of technicality, I guess, that our church never "closed".... while we observed the guidance given by our State, we never missed a Sunday Morning or Wednesday Night.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment

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