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Churches reclosing due to Coronavirus

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  • #61
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post
    I know! It's awful! She's turning into a beautiful young lady and I can't seem to stop it!
    My little baby granddaughter is assistant manager of a Walgreens, and is about to be assigned her own store!

    But, we digress.
    And blessedly so. L
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
      There's no good excuse for being unaware of flu shots.
      There's no good reason to think flu shots completely protect from the flu either.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by seanD View Post
        There's no good reason to think flu shots completely protect from the flu either.
        Which has proven to be the case year after year. Different strains than what the experts declared to be this year's virus is usually the cause. Or people who have compromised immune systems or other underlying health conditions, etc,


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I want to clarify one thing: I think if the church lockdown order kept on going indefinitely, there would be a case for civil disobedience because like Bill said, it's a constitutional violation. I'm not sure the constitution says anything about businesses; you could maybe make a case, but it's not open and shut like it is for freedom of religion.
          We basically have all rights including the right to follow our religion, the right to make a living, the right to travel and other uncountable rights. The limitation is that we cannot harm others (except in self-defense). I think we have greatly surpassed any emergency situation since understanding that most places have not had COVID-19 go viral. Maybe a week long governor directive would be okay. But especially without strong debate on the scientific merits of quarantining everyone (or any other requirements on people), any claim to safety regulations should be challenged in court. (But it costs lost of money to take things up to appeals court and to the US Supreme Court) It is not a case of civil disobedience but rather of fighting unconstitutional state actions.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            I want to clarify one thing: I think if the church lockdown order kept on going indefinitely, there would be a case for civil disobedience because like Bill said, it's a constitutional violation. I'm not sure the constitution says anything about businesses; you could maybe make a case, but it's not open and shut like it is for freedom of religion.
            Freedom of religion doesn't prevent authorities from providing blood transfusions to the children of Jehovah's witnesses against their parents' will. There's increased scrutiny. It requires a court order. But when abridging a freedom is necessary to guard life, the courts have been permissive.

            I'd hope it wouldn't come to that. I think the best bet is to encourage the "forsake not" religious tradents to get creative. The science is incredibly simple here. Spread is exponential, and directly proportional to contacts, so reducing contacts is the entire game. If the base is greater than one, we're heading for over a million deaths in the US. If it's less than one, those people won't become infected. They won't die. It's all about that base, and the base is all about those contacts.

            My biggest concern is that those who are most at risk in these congregations are also those most motivated to gather together.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
              Here's a pic

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]44872[/ATTACH]

              And no, I don't support domestic terrorism. I'm not a Republican as I've already pointed out.
              Neither are these guys.

              ScreenHunter_.jpg

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by seanD View Post
                There's no good reason to think flu shots completely protect from the flu either.
                Your presumption that "the same precautions could have been followed" is not supportable, because Covid-19 shots are not a precaution that can be taken.

                If that's an admission that you were wrong, you're not doing it right.

                Correct yourself and move on.


                We don't need perfect protection. If the initial reproduction factor was 2.4, we'll need 58 percent immunity to achieve herd immunity from Covid-19. Ideally, we'd get that immunity from a vaccine, but anything that reduces contacts with infected persons by that much will do the same job.

                How does the new coronavirus compare with the flu?
                Since the new coronavirus was first discovered in January, many people have compared it with a more well-known disease: The flu.

                Many of these comparisons pointed to the perhaps underappreciated toll of the flu, which causes millions of illnesses and tens of thousands of deaths every year in the U.S. alone. (During the current flu season, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that there have been 39 million to 56 million flu illnesses and 24,000 to 62,000 flu deaths in the U.S., although that number is an estimate based on hospitalizations with flu symptoms, not based on actually counting up every person who has died of flu.)

                The new coronavirus disease, COVID-19, has caused more than 1.4 million illnesses and 85,000 deaths in the U.S. as of May 14, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

                Both COVID-19 and the flu are respiratory illnesses. But COVID-19 is not the flu. Research so far indicates that COVID-19 spreads more easily and has a higher death rate than the flu.

                It's more deadly because it's does more damage. Recovery is more difficult and takes longer. These attempts to minimize or deflect from the apparent risks are ill-advised.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Neither are these guys.

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]44873[/ATTACH]
                  Ok. So I probably oppose their actions. What's your point?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                    Ok. So I probably oppose their actions. What's your point?
                    It was YOUR point. I just reacted. Republicans are not usually the kind to burn down churches.

                    So if they catch the guys who did do this domestic terrorism, who do you think the culprit will be? Democrat or Republican?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                      What? I thought I was perfectly clear. How did you get what you said I was saying out of what I was saying.
                      I though my reply was clear as well. Perhaps you can't see that asking for credit from someone who has been given none is not exactly a reasonable request. What credit do I have to give?
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        It was YOUR point. I just reacted. Republicans are not usually the kind to burn down churches.

                        So if they catch the guys who did do this domestic terrorism, who do you think the culprit will be? Democrat or Republican?
                        Probably some form of left-wing anarchist.

                        Or a Republican trying for some insurance scam.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          I though my reply was clear as well. Perhaps you can't see that asking for credit from someone who has been given none is not exactly a reasonable request. What credit do I have to give?

                          Sure, oxmixmudd. Rave on.


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            https://www.thedailybeast.com/over-1...a=twitter_page


                            Over 1,200 pastors across California have vowed to reopen their churches for in-person services on May 31, a sweeping act of protest against Gov. Gavin Newsom’s restrictions on religious gatherings amid the coronavirus pandemic. Robert H. Tyler, a lawyer for a church that has sued the state over the shelter-in-place order, told Newsom that the pastors signed a “Declaration of Essentiality” in an effort to defy the state order and distinguish their churches as essential services. “This letter was not sent for the purposes of asking for permission,” Tyler wrote in a letter to the governor. “We believe you are attempting to act in the best interests of the state, but the restrictions have gone too far and for too long.”


                            Here's a question I have--most of the things which happen in church could still take place while observing social distancing as long as the number of congregants was reduced. However, taking communion seems to be a tougher number to crack. Is it worthwhile to forgo communion for the time being? It seems distasteful to me for the government to regulate particular aspects of religious worship in that way.

                            Anyway, I assume the churches will open and no mass arrests will happen. Hopefully they're mostly located in red counties far away from me.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                              Sure, oxmixmudd. Rave on.
                              I think you just made my point
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                I think you just made my point
                                What point?

                                The one where you totally agreed, tacitly, with DO, and became rude and disrespectful to your fellow believers on this site? Even when I pointed out that I do not think that churches should go against what we are directed to do, and that I even would not visit my granddaughter on her birthday because I refuse to NOT BE CAREFUL?

                                What exactly was your point, if not to totally ignore what I said and start attacking your fellow believers here?


                                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                                Comment

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