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(Lighter thread): Who should re-open first, churches or AA meetings?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    ...The ACLJ headed by the Presidents own council no less, Jay Sekulow.

    aclj.org/religious-liberty/can-the-government-close-churches-in-response-to-an-epidemic
    Here is part of that article which supports EXACTLY what I have been saying...

    Also, different – and stricter – rules apply to the federal government on this score. While state and local governments can neutrally apply safety measures to churches, the federal government must meet a higher standard under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). If the federal action imposes a substantial burden on religious exercise – and closing churches certainly would do so – then the federal government must prove that it acts to further a compelling interest and is taking the least restrictive means to further that interest. (Some states also provide similar extra protection for religion under their own constitutions and statutes.)


    Brother Jay is pretty much where I get my info, because he is our Church's lawyer.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #77
      AND..... (I'm on a roll and about to go out and do some mowing).... while we're on this topic....

      I want to make it clear that our Church, in particular, and most others in general, sought out the advice of our local government, and we were FAR MORE concerned about protecting the health and well being of our elderly congregants, and had ZERO desire to "battle the courts".

      Now, had they actually tried to BAN Church, as JimL was referencing, THAT would have been a war, and our County Judge knew that full well.


      It's like when we were getting ready to build a drive-through for our fellowship hall, and a dude from county government stopped by and advised that we needed a wheelchair ramp where our proposed "stairs" were gonna be --- one of our deacons got really mad and was ready to fight, because "Government doesn't need to be telling Churches what to do!". I calmed him down, and said, "look, we're not doing this 'to comply with government bullying' - we're gonna do this because we love people who are mobility challenged and want to make ingress and egress easier for them". He calmed down and said, "OH... um.... OK then!"
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
        Rogue,

        If you're talking about the case I'm thinking of I happen to agree with the Supreme Court in that case. Sheesh.
        Who cares?

        I wasn't talking to you or about you. Sheesh.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Woah, it's been a while since the manure spreader malfunctioned and threw the whole load all at once!



          Good, cause it ain't there!



          A tacit admission if ever there was one.


          NOWHERE in that article does brother Jay support your goofy notion that "it is perfectly legal to ban church services". You might wanna take off your anti-Christian Bias glasses and read it again.
          Jay Sekulow: "Likewise, if a disease epidemic requires imposition of a curfew or quarantine, or prohibition of large gatherings, this (the banning of in church services) can be legitimate, so long as there is no unfairness in the governments treatment of religious intitutions and persons. The watchword is neutrality"

          In other words, so long as churches aren't singled out unfairly. How could you have read that and conclude that nowhere in the article does it say that?

          Comment


          • #80
            Churches are a primary vector for spreading the infection by COVID 19. AA meetings can be small and easily held in consideration of social distanceing.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              Jay Sekulow: "Likewise, if a disease epidemic requires imposition of a curfew or quarantine, or prohibition of large gatherings, this (the banning of in church services) can be legitimate, so long as there is no unfairness in the governments treatment of religious intitutions and persons. The watchword is neutrality"

              In other words, so long as churches aren't singled out unfairly. How could you have read that and conclude that nowhere in the article does it say that?
              You know, the problem with your citations is your dishonest rewording of the quote....

              Here's the ACTUAL quote...

              Likewise, if a disease epidemic requires imposition of a curfew, or quarantine, or prohibition of large gatherings, this can be legitimate so long as there is no unfairness in the government’s treatment of religious institutions and persons.


              A "prohibition of large gatherings" is NOT the same as "the banning of in church services". It could simply require SMALLER meetings, hence, the reference to "large gatherings".

              Any time you type "in other words", you can pretty much take it to the bank you're about to spew forth falsehoods.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Churches are a primary vector for spreading the infection by COVID 19. AA meetings can be small and easily held in consideration of social distanceing.
                We held church services for nearly two months with 10 people or less, as required by state's guidance, in addition to holding our support services. We were not in any way BANNED from having services.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  You know, the problem with your citations is your dishonest rewording of the quote....

                  Here's the ACTUAL quote...

                  Likewise, if a disease epidemic requires imposition of a curfew, or quarantine, or prohibition of large gatherings, this can be legitimate so long as there is no unfairness in the government’s treatment of religious institutions and persons.


                  A "prohibition of large gatherings" is NOT the same as "the banning of in church services". It could simply require SMALLER meetings, hence, the reference to "large gatherings".

                  Any time you type "in other words", you can pretty much take it to the bank you're about to spew forth falsehoods.
                  I put that, "the banning of in church servises," in brackets, because that is what the article is refering to. It's not dishonest, I figured you probably wouldn't understand that, or would pretend that you didn't. Apparently I was correct.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    We held church services for nearly two months with 10 people or less, as required by state's guidance, in addition to holding our support services. We were not in any way BANNED from having services.
                    Was it "in church servises!"

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      I put that, "the banning of in church servises," in brackets, because that is what the article is refering to.
                      Absolutely false.

                      It's not dishonest, I figured you probably wouldn't understand that, or would pretend that you didn't. Apparently I was correct.
                      Ok, it let's say it's not dishonest -- let's just say it's bone-headed stupid.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        So long as the churches are not targeted gentlemen, so long as the ban does not apply to churches alone, and it is a temporary ban in the interests of public safety, in other words so long as the law is neutral, it is perfectly legal to ban church services.\
                        That's what you said, and it was absolutely false.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          Was it "in church servises!"
                          Absolutely - completely within the guidelines. Just admit you screwed up and move on.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            That's what you said, and it was absolutely false.
                            Tell it to Jay Sekulow, CP.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Absolutely - completely within the guidelines. Just admit you screwed up and move on.
                              They are guidelines if stated thusly, if they are mandated, then they are mandated.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                They are guidelines if stated thusly, if they are mandated, then they are mandated.
                                Nobody BANNED our church meetings, Jim -- there were limitations advised, and we complied - to the letter. And Sekulow - our attorney - NEVER said it was acceptable to BAN church meetings.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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