(Lighter thread): Who should re-open first, churches or AA meetings?

[Cow Poke]

Trump can't force churches to re-open, Sparko, nor can he tell Governors how to run the states. DO is right, it's red meat for his evangelical base, Trump couldn't care less, otherwise.

You know, it's actually possible for somebody to do something for political expediency AND care about it?

[rogue06]

Trump can't force churches to re-open, Sparko, nor can he tell Governors how to run the states. DO is right, it's red meat for his evangelical base, Trump couldn't care less, otherwise.

So George Wallace was right to stand in the school doorway and deny admittance to blacks because JFK can't force schools to admit blacks nor tell Governors how to run the states?

[RumTumTugger]

So George Wallace was right to stand in the school doorway and deny admittance to blacks because JFK can't force schools to admit blacks nor tell Governors how to run the states?

[JimL]

Just out of curiosity, where are you getting that anybody is trying to force (or "enforce") churches to reopen?

I don't need to get that from anywhere, if a church wants to stay closed, that's nobody's business but the churches.

[RumTumTugger]

No, as far as opening up again, they are not calling planned parenthood and liquer stores essential, each state is determining the opening procedure guidelines for themselves. It no longer has to do with what's essential. which included businesse's such as supermarkets, gas stations and banks etc. When it comes to re-opening it's left up to the states to decide what they want to do, or how they want to do it, and the states can't enforce churches to re-open any more than our wannabe King can..

Sorry JimL this is a 1st Amendment issue not a 10th Amendment Issue and as the Protector of the Constitution if the Governors do not start opening up the places of worship President Trump can sue the States for trampling on the 1st amendment rights of the People to worship together. which is what I suspect he is going to do.

The ones acting like dictators and wannabe kings are certain Governors who refuse to accept that the People have rights that SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

[mikewhitney]

Trump can't force churches to re-open, Sparko, nor can he tell Governors how to run the states. DO is right, it's red meat for his evangelical base, Trump couldn't care less, otherwise.

The states under the 14th Amendment are subject to the limitation of powers under the Bill of Rights.

You are so funny. I think people are catching on to your humor. You endorse the Democrat governors who favor shutting down churches. This appeals to leftist revolutionists in a political sense. Then you call Trump's act to restore freedom as merely an unprincipled Trump appealing to the Christians -- when there are also Jews and Buddhists and other religious adherents who also may like to meet again.

Have you applied for the Babylon Bee yet?

[Cow Poke]

I don't need to get that from anywhere, if a church wants to stay closed, that's nobody's business but the churches.

So, you just pulled it out of your butt? Cause I don't see anybody trying to force churches to open. It's all about not forcing them to remain closed.

[RumTumTugger]

I don't need to get that from anywhere, if a church wants to stay closed, that's nobody's business but the churches.

no one is forcing or calling for anyone to be forced to open up JimL. We just want the Governors to stop infringing on our rights to worship. Just admit the Governors are wrong in not allowing places of worship to open and move on.

Force
verb
2.
make (someone) do something against their will.
"she was forced into early retirement"

Allow
verb
1.
give (someone) permission to do something.
"the dissident was allowed to leave the country"

[DivineOb]

no one is forcing or calling for anyone to be forced to open up JimL. We just want the Governors to stop infringing on our rights to worship. Just admit the Governors are wrong in not allowing places of worship to open and move on.

Force
verb
2.
make (someone) do something against their will.
"she was forced into early retirement"

Allow
verb
1.
give (someone) permission to do something.
"the dissident was allowed to leave the country"

Isn't it a general prohibition against meeting in groups? How is that infringing on the right to worship in particular?

[JimL]

no one is forcing or calling for anyone to be forced to open up JimL. We just want the Governors to stop infringing on our rights to worship. Just admit the Governors are wrong in not allowing places of worship to open and move on.

Force
verb
2.
make (someone) do something against their will.
"she was forced into early retirement"

Allow
verb
1.
give (someone) permission to do something.
"the dissident was allowed to leave the country"

So, do you believe that the government should not have been able to take any actions at all, that thousands or perhaps millions of people should be allowed to die because of the negligence and thoughtlessness of people who believe as you do, that your freedom to do as you will takes precedence over the people that you may kill as a result.?

The President doesn't have the authority to overide Governors.

[Cow Poke]

Isn't it a general prohibition against meeting in groups? How is that infringing on the right to worship in particular?

Because there's actually a constitutional protection for religious groups, but not for baseball games or movie theaters.

[DivineOb]

Because there's actually a constitutional protection for religious groups, but not for baseball games or movie theaters.

The first amendment provides five rights

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

[Cow Poke]

The first amendment provides five rights

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

So why bold the part you want, and ignore the part I want? Let's try my version....

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Everybody likes to throw "the establishment clause" around, but ignore the "prohibition clause".

[JimL]

So why bold the part you want, and ignore the part I want? Let's try my version....

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Everybody likes to throw "the establishment clause" around, but ignore the "prohibition clause".

These are neutral bans, temporary bans on crowding, not the targeting of certain groups, churches etc while leaving other groups alone. Churches are not exempt from state regulations that apply across the board, they just can't be targeted. There is case law for this, you can find it if interested. I'm to lazy.

[Cow Poke]

These are neutral bans, temporary bans on crowding, not the targeting of certain groups, churches etc while leaving other groups alone.

Right there in the first amendment, Jim -- "of prohibiting the free exercise thereof" -- no exceptions there at all.

Churches are not exempt from state regulations that apply across the board, they just can't be targeted. There is case law for this, you can find it if interested. I'm to lazy.

I think what you are missing is the fact that the things I mentioned are engaged in commerce, which most certainly can be taxed, limited, regulated... The free exercise of religion is not the same as commerce, which can be regulated.