Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Spiritual Gifts
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostI think it also may be they don't want to change or so something new.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThat too! The seven deadliest words in a church.... "We've Never Done It Like That Before"."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostDo you know what yours is?
Do you believe every Christian has a spiritual gift?
Do you believe these gifts are assigned by the Spirit, and not ours to "claim"?
Do you allow your spiritual gift to be used to the benefit of the Body?
Yes, at least one.
Yes, but I believe it's assigned based on our personality and strengths.
Absolutely! I don't teach as much as I would like right now but I'm looking into ways to further that gift."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostYes, AOS and Teaching.
Yes, at least one.
Yes, but I believe it's assigned based on our personality and strengths.
Absolutely! I don't teach as much as I would like right now but I'm looking into ways to further that gift.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostOnce churches are reopen up here, I will be back in to seeking a church home. I have learned that I need to make sure there is a least a part of the church that is looking for the same things as me. As someone said to me awhile back, you can't expect those that don't have what you want to be able to give to you. I hoping to find a place where at least they are looking for the same things as me.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Christian3 View PostReally?
Have you ever tried to teach a Jew that Jesus is the Messiah using Scriptures only to have them say you are misinterpreting Scriptures?
Have you ever tried to teach a Muslim that Jesus claimed to be divine, only to have them say Jesus didn't say that; the writers put those words in Jesus mouth and you can't believe the New Testament because it is corrupted?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostCP is obviously talking about those who want to learn.
My classic example is the day my wife and I were in a restaurant, and we heard a couple of dear sweet little old bluehairs talking about their Sunday School teacher. One of them gushed, "He is SO SMART and he knows SO MUCH about the Bible that most of the time we don't have any idea at all what he's talking about!"
He thinks he's "teaching", but he's just talking. Sometimes I hear that referred to as "talking to hear himself talk".The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYeah, I had in mind the guy who stands up there and spews forth "knowledge" without even paying attention to whether or not anybody is "getting it".
My classic example is the day my wife and I were in a restaurant, and we heard a couple of dear sweet little old bluehairs talking about their Sunday School teacher. One of them gushed, "He is SO SMART and he knows SO MUCH about the Bible that most of the time we don't have any idea at all what he's talking about!"
He thinks he's "teaching", but he's just talking. Sometimes I hear that referred to as "talking to hear himself talk".
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI was thinking of that guy who was posting to JP Holding a while back, who had some youtube channel where he was teaching people how to count change and other such silly things, and thought of himself as some great teacher, while his posts were mostly confused nonsense. Speedlearner1.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostOnce churches are reopen up here, I will be back in to seeking a church home. I have learned that I need to make sure there is a least a part of the church that is looking for the same things as me. As someone said to me awhile back, you can't expect those that don't have what you want to be able to give to you. I hoping to find a place where at least they are looking for the same things as me.
A church that preaches the Gospel and not Moralistic Therapeutic Deism. The latter is all too common in this region.
Related to the first, a church that knows about sin, confession, repentance, and forgiveness.
A church that has a deeper understanding of God than just God is love. Related to the previous, I know God loves me - I need to hear more often that He's forgiven me.
A church that has a theology that can handle suffering and understands not everything will be healed or fixed in this world.
A church that can help me deepen my relationship with God.
That seems to be the really important or essential items."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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I feel like there isn't much good teaching on spiritual gifts in the churches. There may not even be much good teaching on it in the Bible, either. What we really need is, for each of the list of gifts that Cow Poke typed out earlier, a good definition or description of each one. Further, it would be helpful if we had a good example or two to show how each one would manifest. In fact, ideally we should also have a verse or two from the Bible to illustrate the use of each one.
Having weak definitions clouds the discussion. For example, both Sparko and Cow Poke's wife were alleged to have the gift of discernment. However, there is no gift of discernment in the Bible. The actual phrase is discerning of spirits. Worse yet, the Bible isn't real clear about what that phrase actually means. (Granted, it is conceivable that someone with discernment of spirits might also be good at discerning things in general, but then again, maybe not.)
I've tried looking into this in the past, and I didn't come up with anything real helpful. For example, I have no strong idea for what the difference would be between a word of wisdom versus a word of knowledge. So I'm mainly just poking holes here, not offering solutions.
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostI feel like there isn't much good teaching on spiritual gifts in the churches. There may not even be much good teaching on it in the Bible, either. What we really need is, for each of the list of gifts that Cow Poke typed out earlier, a good definition or description of each one. Further, it would be helpful if we had a good example or two to show how each one would manifest. In fact, ideally we should also have a verse or two from the Bible to illustrate the use of each one.
Having weak definitions clouds the discussion. For example, both Sparko and Cow Poke's wife were alleged to have the gift of discernment. However, there is no gift of discernment in the Bible. The actual phrase is discerning of spirits. Worse yet, the Bible isn't real clear about what that phrase actually means. (Granted, it is conceivable that someone with discernment of spirits might also be good at discerning things in general, but then again, maybe not.)
I've tried looking into this in the past, and I didn't come up with anything real helpful. For example, I have no strong idea for what the difference would be between a word of wisdom versus a word of knowledge. So I'm mainly just poking holes here, not offering solutions.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostI feel like there isn't much good teaching on spiritual gifts in the churches. There may not even be much good teaching on it in the Bible, either. What we really need is, for each of the list of gifts that Cow Poke typed out earlier, a good definition or description of each one. Further, it would be helpful if we had a good example or two to show how each one would manifest. In fact, ideally we should also have a verse or two from the Bible to illustrate the use of each one.
Having weak definitions clouds the discussion. For example, both Sparko and Cow Poke's wife were alleged to have the gift of discernment. However, there is no gift of discernment in the Bible. The actual phrase is discerning of spirits. Worse yet, the Bible isn't real clear about what that phrase actually means. (Granted, it is conceivable that someone with discernment of spirits might also be good at discerning things in general, but then again, maybe not.)
I've tried looking into this in the past, and I didn't come up with anything real helpful. For example, I have no strong idea for what the difference would be between a word of wisdom versus a word of knowledge. So I'm mainly just poking holes here, not offering solutions."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI may tackle this in the very near future - good points."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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