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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?

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Spiritual Gifts

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Good point.... there are times when, absent a person with the applicable gifting, I ask somebody to "fill in", but I'd much rather they volunteer. Amazingly, sometimes that "volunteer" discovers that they are far more suited for the task than they had ever imagined.

    I think, in many cases, it's laziness on the Church --- to get to know new people and discover their gifts, talents and abilities. OR, in some cases, it's a "us 4 and no more" mentality, where they're afraid of giving up 'control' or something.
    I think it also may be they don't want to change or so something new.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
      I think it also may be they don't want to change or so something new.
      That too! The seven deadliest words in a church.... "We've Never Done It Like That Before".
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        That too! The seven deadliest words in a church.... "We've Never Done It Like That Before".
        Once churches are reopen up here, I will be back in to seeking a church home. I have learned that I need to make sure there is a least a part of the church that is looking for the same things as me. As someone said to me awhile back, you can't expect those that don't have what you want to be able to give to you. I hoping to find a place where at least they are looking for the same things as me.
        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Do you know what yours is?
          Do you believe every Christian has a spiritual gift?
          Do you believe these gifts are assigned by the Spirit, and not ours to "claim"?
          Do you allow your spiritual gift to be used to the benefit of the Body?
          Yes, AOS and Teaching.

          Yes, at least one.

          Yes, but I believe it's assigned based on our personality and strengths.

          Absolutely! I don't teach as much as I would like right now but I'm looking into ways to further that gift.
          "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

          "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
            Yes, AOS and Teaching.

            Yes, at least one.

            Yes, but I believe it's assigned based on our personality and strengths.

            Absolutely! I don't teach as much as I would like right now but I'm looking into ways to further that gift.
            A very MINOR clarification... that third one. I believe that's probably how it works MOST of the time, but I wouldn't limit God (and I'm sure you wouldn't either) from drawing on our weaknesses in spite of our personality. But, yeah, what you said just makes sense.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
              Once churches are reopen up here, I will be back in to seeking a church home. I have learned that I need to make sure there is a least a part of the church that is looking for the same things as me. As someone said to me awhile back, you can't expect those that don't have what you want to be able to give to you. I hoping to find a place where at least they are looking for the same things as me.
              Interesting. Can you elaborate on what it is you want?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                Really?

                Have you ever tried to teach a Jew that Jesus is the Messiah using Scriptures only to have them say you are misinterpreting Scriptures?

                Have you ever tried to teach a Muslim that Jesus claimed to be divine, only to have them say Jesus didn't say that; the writers put those words in Jesus mouth and you can't believe the New Testament because it is corrupted?
                CP is obviously talking about those who want to learn.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  CP is obviously talking about those who want to learn.
                  Yeah, I had in mind the guy who stands up there and spews forth "knowledge" without even paying attention to whether or not anybody is "getting it".

                  My classic example is the day my wife and I were in a restaurant, and we heard a couple of dear sweet little old bluehairs talking about their Sunday School teacher. One of them gushed, "He is SO SMART and he knows SO MUCH about the Bible that most of the time we don't have any idea at all what he's talking about!"

                  He thinks he's "teaching", but he's just talking. Sometimes I hear that referred to as "talking to hear himself talk".
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Yeah, I had in mind the guy who stands up there and spews forth "knowledge" without even paying attention to whether or not anybody is "getting it".

                    My classic example is the day my wife and I were in a restaurant, and we heard a couple of dear sweet little old bluehairs talking about their Sunday School teacher. One of them gushed, "He is SO SMART and he knows SO MUCH about the Bible that most of the time we don't have any idea at all what he's talking about!"

                    He thinks he's "teaching", but he's just talking. Sometimes I hear that referred to as "talking to hear himself talk".
                    I was thinking of that guy who was posting to JP Holding a while back, who had some youtube channel where he was teaching people how to count change and other such silly things, and thought of himself as some great teacher, while his posts were mostly confused nonsense. Speedlearner1.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      I was thinking of that guy who was posting to JP Holding a while back, who had some youtube channel where he was teaching people how to count change and other such silly things, and thought of himself as some great teacher, while his posts were mostly confused nonsense. Speedlearner1.
                      OH YEAH.... I remember that!!!!
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                        Once churches are reopen up here, I will be back in to seeking a church home. I have learned that I need to make sure there is a least a part of the church that is looking for the same things as me. As someone said to me awhile back, you can't expect those that don't have what you want to be able to give to you. I hoping to find a place where at least they are looking for the same things as me.
                        After thinking about this for awhile, here's the short version of what I'm looking for.

                        A church that preaches the Gospel and not Moralistic Therapeutic Deism. The latter is all too common in this region.
                        Related to the first, a church that knows about sin, confession, repentance, and forgiveness.
                        A church that has a deeper understanding of God than just God is love. Related to the previous, I know God loves me - I need to hear more often that He's forgiven me.
                        A church that has a theology that can handle suffering and understands not everything will be healed or fixed in this world.
                        A church that can help me deepen my relationship with God.

                        That seems to be the really important or essential items.
                        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          I feel like there isn't much good teaching on spiritual gifts in the churches. There may not even be much good teaching on it in the Bible, either. What we really need is, for each of the list of gifts that Cow Poke typed out earlier, a good definition or description of each one. Further, it would be helpful if we had a good example or two to show how each one would manifest. In fact, ideally we should also have a verse or two from the Bible to illustrate the use of each one.

                          Having weak definitions clouds the discussion. For example, both Sparko and Cow Poke's wife were alleged to have the gift of discernment. However, there is no gift of discernment in the Bible. The actual phrase is discerning of spirits. Worse yet, the Bible isn't real clear about what that phrase actually means. (Granted, it is conceivable that someone with discernment of spirits might also be good at discerning things in general, but then again, maybe not.)

                          I've tried looking into this in the past, and I didn't come up with anything real helpful. For example, I have no strong idea for what the difference would be between a word of wisdom versus a word of knowledge. So I'm mainly just poking holes here, not offering solutions.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                            I feel like there isn't much good teaching on spiritual gifts in the churches. There may not even be much good teaching on it in the Bible, either. What we really need is, for each of the list of gifts that Cow Poke typed out earlier, a good definition or description of each one. Further, it would be helpful if we had a good example or two to show how each one would manifest. In fact, ideally we should also have a verse or two from the Bible to illustrate the use of each one.

                            Having weak definitions clouds the discussion. For example, both Sparko and Cow Poke's wife were alleged to have the gift of discernment. However, there is no gift of discernment in the Bible. The actual phrase is discerning of spirits. Worse yet, the Bible isn't real clear about what that phrase actually means. (Granted, it is conceivable that someone with discernment of spirits might also be good at discerning things in general, but then again, maybe not.)

                            I've tried looking into this in the past, and I didn't come up with anything real helpful. For example, I have no strong idea for what the difference would be between a word of wisdom versus a word of knowledge. So I'm mainly just poking holes here, not offering solutions.
                            I may tackle this in the very near future - good points.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                              I feel like there isn't much good teaching on spiritual gifts in the churches. There may not even be much good teaching on it in the Bible, either. What we really need is, for each of the list of gifts that Cow Poke typed out earlier, a good definition or description of each one. Further, it would be helpful if we had a good example or two to show how each one would manifest. In fact, ideally we should also have a verse or two from the Bible to illustrate the use of each one.

                              Having weak definitions clouds the discussion. For example, both Sparko and Cow Poke's wife were alleged to have the gift of discernment. However, there is no gift of discernment in the Bible. The actual phrase is discerning of spirits. Worse yet, the Bible isn't real clear about what that phrase actually means. (Granted, it is conceivable that someone with discernment of spirits might also be good at discerning things in general, but then again, maybe not.)

                              I've tried looking into this in the past, and I didn't come up with anything real helpful. For example, I have no strong idea for what the difference would be between a word of wisdom versus a word of knowledge. So I'm mainly just poking holes here, not offering solutions.
                              All good points. I suggest the church isn't preaching much on spiritual gifts these days. Church sermons have become more encouragement than actual teaching. To get good teaching anymore, I'm find I have to go back about 100 years and read people like Spurgeon and Torrey. No specific references come to mind at this point.
                              "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                              "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                I may tackle this in the very near future - good points.
                                I would also suggest looking into the reason churches don't seem to use peoples' gifting effectively.
                                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                                Comment

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