Spiritual Gifts

[Cow Poke]

I would also suggest looking into the reason churches don't seem to use peoples' gifting effectively.

My first guess would be ignorance.
A second guess is that a lot of churches are afraid of the "charismatic", and associate 'gifts' with 'tongues', which is often wildly abused.

[Christianbookworm]

I have heard some people believe that toungues are a code language to keep demons from overhearing their prayers. Which makes no sense whatsoever when the recipient of said prayer is infinitely more powerful than any mere creature He has created.

[Cow Poke]

I have heard some people believe that toungues are a code language to keep demons from overhearing their prayers.

That's a new one to me.

Which makes no sense whatsoever when the recipient of said prayer is infinitely more powerful than any mere creature He has created.

[mossrose]

I would also suggest looking into the reason churches don't seem to use peoples' gifting effectively.

Most churches today have gone so far from teaching sound doctrine and are only interested in "feel good" messages and let's not ever, ever mention sin because it makes people uncomfortable that they likely don't even know what the gifts are.

Except the ones that cram the offering plates every week.

By the way, although many here will disagree with me, John MacArthur is a sound teacher along the lines of Spurgeon, whom he quotes often. You will find all of his messages here.

https://www.gty.org/

[mossrose]

I have heard some people believe that toungues are a code language to keep demons from overhearing their prayers. Which makes no sense whatsoever when the recipient of said prayer is infinitely more powerful than any mere creature He has created.

Not to mention that according to scripture there is supposed to be an interpreter so that the congregation understands what is being said. Which never happens nowadays where this is going on.

Sort of defeats the purpose to have an interpreter.

Also, which actual language do demons understand? Just English?

It's a very silly reason to use to excuse speaking in tongues.

[Cow Poke]

Most churches today have gone so far from teaching sound doctrine and are only interested in "feel good" messages and let's not ever, ever mention sin because it makes people uncomfortable that they likely don't even know what the gifts are.

Except the ones that cram the offering plates every week.

By the way, although many here will disagree with me, John MacArthur is a sound teacher along the lines of Spurgeon, whom he quotes often. You will find all of his messages here.

https://www.gty.org/

OK, My John MacArthur story.....

YEARS ago, I was college minister in a Church where the Pastor (long story short) was more of a man pleaser than God pleaser -- problem is, some of the people he kept trying to please happened to work at the same place, or played golf together, or.... in the course of normal conversation, one would say "Ya know, Pastor X told me...." and the other guy would say, "Is that right? He told ME ......"

It didn't take very long to see that he was often telling whatever story he thought would work best, and apparently never considered the probability that "people talk" and "be sure your sins will find you out".

It came to a point where there was going to be a deacon meeting to handle this, because it was mainly the deacons to whom he told the various conflicting stories.

On the Sunday morning prior to the deacon meeting, the Pastor, at the end of the service, announced that he was resigning effective immediately, after which the music minister announced he was going with the Pastor, and... it was quite a bombshell. Apparently, they had been conniving and planning, and more than HALF THE CHURCH had been recruited to go with them and start a new church.

I was left with the fragments, the confused people, the wounded..... on Monday morning, I dealt with that all morning, people showing up to ask what happened, and why.....

That afternoon, I had to drive to Houston, and got stuck on the "I-45 parking lot"...... As I sat there waiting for traffic to start back up again, I said out loud, "Lord, WHY do Churches have to split like this!"

The guy on the radio said, "If you've been wondering why churches split, stay tuned, and after the break, Pastor John MacArthur will answer that question".

When MacArtuhr came on, he said (after introducing the topic), "when one or more people begin to operate independent of the Spirit of God, particularly those in leadership, a split is all but inevitable".

[Cow Poke]

Not to mention that according to scripture there is supposed to be an interpreter so that the congregation understands what is being said. Which never happens nowadays where this is going on.

Sort of defeats the purpose to have an interpreter.

Also, which actual language do demons understand? Just English?

It's a very silly reason to use to excuse speaking in tongues.

My "favorite" abuse of tongues is where you'll have somebody "deliver a message in tongues" then that same person offers "the interpretation".

My Assembly of God Pastor friend told me "when that happens, I just nod to one of my elders, and he and another elder will come and guide that person out the door..."

[Thoughtful Monk]

My first guess would be ignorance.
A second guess is that a lot of churches are afraid of the "charismatic", and associate 'gifts' with 'tongues', which is often wildly abused.

I think both of those are reasonable. I'll add too many churches are run as a business and so they lack an ability to see the spiritual aspects.

[Cow Poke]

I think both of those are reasonable. I'll add too many churches are run as a business and so they lack an ability to see the spiritual aspects.

Well, yeah, and too many churches are run as "entertainment", and BARELY have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof.

[Rushing Jaws]

Do you know what yours is?
Do you believe every Christian has a spiritual gift?
Do you believe these gifts are assigned by the Spirit, and not ours to "claim"?
Do you allow your spiritual gift to be used to the benefit of the Body?

I think our spiritual gifts are whatever Christ has received from His Father, since His Graces are communicated to His members by His Spirit Who is in Him and in them.
And I take it as fundamental, that everything a Christian has, is, & does, insofar as it is good, is a grace.
So basically, everything about life in Christ is nothing but grace.

I don’t like talk of “claiming” these things either.

[Rushing Jaws]

AND....
do you think you can have more than one spiritual gift,

Yes

and do you think your spiritual gift(s) can change over time?

Yes. I think they undergo many changes, because those in whom they are present undergo many changes.
I think they are meant to be exercised so as to be realised as fully as possible, for the Glory of God and of Christ, and for the deeper sanctification of the Church and the individual.

STM that is worth asking whether they are separate gifts, or a single, multiform gift, or whether they are results in creatures that arise from God’s “attitude” to creatures.

Basically, is God’s Grace, God’s Subjective favourable regard, the “lifting up of God’s Face upon” people - or is it a “something” God “gives” to creatures ? Or is it both - or maybe something else ?

[footwasher]

Yes. I think they undergo many changes, because those in whom they are present undergo many changes.
I think they are meant to be exercised so as to be realised as fully as possible, for the Glory of God and of Christ, and for the deeper sanctification of the Church and the individual.

It's more than just the Church and the individual.

It seems to me that the Founder of the organisation would want His spiritual gifts to be ultimately utilised for a general revival, turning the view of the rest of the world from thinking the Church had just one, of the many, views of God, to thinking it was the real view of God:

1 Corinthians 14:24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

I’m reminded of the Great Awakenings of the 1850’s when thousands were brought to follow God, not just in America, but worldwide:

Britain and Ireland[edit]
Main articles: 1859 Ulster revival and 1859 Welsh revival
In 1857, four young Irishmen began a weekly prayer meeting in the village of Connor near Ballymena. See also Ahoghill. This meeting is generally regarded as the origin of the 1859 Ulster Revival that swept through most of the towns and villages throughout Ulster and in due course brought 100,000 converts into the churches. It was also ignited by a young preacher, Henry Grattan Guinness, who drew thousands at a time to hear his preaching. So great was the interest in the American movement that in 1858 the Presbyterian General Assembly meeting in Derry appointed two of their ministers, Dr. William Gibson and Rev. William McClure to visit North America. Upon their return the two deputies had many public opportunities to bear testimony to what they had witnessed of the remarkable outpouring of the Spirit across the Atlantic, and to fan the flames in their homeland yet further. Such was the strength of emotion generated by the preachers' oratory that many made spontaneous confessions seeking to be relieved of their burdens of sin. Others suffered complete nervous breakdown.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_revival#Britain

[Cow Poke]

It's more than just the Church and the individual.

It seems to me that the Founder of the organisation would want His spiritual gifts to be ultimately utilised for a general revival, turning the view of the rest of the world from thinking the Church had just one, of the many, views of God, to thinking it was the real view of God:

First, welcome to Tweb.
Second, where the gifts are discussed by Paul, the purpose is also explained - for the edification of the Church.
That could be revival, sure, but it could also be the daily operation of the Church.

[Thoughtful Monk]

First, welcome to Tweb.
Second, where the gifts are discussed by Paul, the purpose is also explained - for the edification of the Church.
That could be revival, sure, but it could also be the daily operation of the Church.

After reading Chiefsinner's post, I think he's using revival in a more general sense than Revival like the Great Awakening. His usage more implies evangelism. So the answer is both. The Church needs spiritual gifts so it's members are build up and so outsiders are brought it.

[footwasher]

After reading Chiefsinner's post, I think he's using revival in a more general sense than Revival like the Great Awakening. His usage more implies evangelism. So the answer is both. The Church needs spiritual gifts so it's members are build up and so outsiders are brought it.

Sure. I referenced the Awakening of the 1850s, the Second Great Awakening, because it led to conversions, unlike the First, which was mainly a renewal of the commitments of believers. Like you said, the Church needed reminding of the purpose of its existence before it could carry out that purpose. A non evangelising church, which do exist, is a kind of an oxymoron. I wonder how they explain what they do. Something to the effect of David leaving a part of his band behind to look after the stuff, I think.