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The reason people reject the resurrection

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  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    What "anti-Paul claims" have I made? I pointed out that your Scripture [i.e. Acts] tell us that Paul came from Tarsus and he earned his living as a tent maker. Whether that information is correct or not cannot be established.

    I fail to see what relevance your two blog sites provide.

    As I recall Paul tells us nothing of either his parentage or his economic and social background in the epistles deemed to be authentic to his hand.
    For one you claim Paul was starting a new religion!! He preached the Gospel.

    So you just consider any Scripture that disagrees with you to be not authentic??

    Great job ... if you can get by with it!!
    Last edited by Trucker; 06-29-2020, 10:46 AM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Trucker View Post
      For one you claim Paul was starting a new religion!! He preached the Gospel.
      He preached his gospel and he was starting a new religion based on his own idiosyncratic beliefs. Jesus of Nazareth was not a Christian. Nor did he perceive himself to be the Lord of Glory or Christ Lord Jesus.

      Originally posted by Trucker View Post
      So you just consider any Scripture that disagrees with you to be not authentic??
      You are the one who made claims for Paul that are contradicted in Acts [i.e. your scripture].

      I repeat, as far as I can recall, Paul tells us exactly nothing about his socio-economic background nor his parentage[i.e. who his parents were and what social position they held].
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        He preached his gospel and he was starting a new religion based on his own idiosyncratic beliefs. Jesus of Nazareth was not a Christian. Nor did he perceive himself to be the Lord of Glory or Christ Lord Jesus.
        ]
        Here's some examples of Paul''s preaching:
        1. Jesus is the Messiah or Christ
        JESUS: He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God". And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven". (Matthew 16:15-17)
        PAUL: Paul was occupied with proclaiming the word, testifying to the Jews that the Messiah was Jesus. (Acts 18:5)
        2. Jesus is the Son of God
        JESUS: All of them asked, "Are you, then, the Son of God?" He said to them, "You say that I am". Then they said, "What further testimony do we need? We have heard it ourselves from his own lips!" (Luke 22:70-71)
        PAUL: Immediately he began to proclaim Jesus in the synagogues, saying, "He is the Son of God". (Acts 9:20)
        3. Jesus is Lord
        JESUS: You call me Teacher and Lord - and you are right, for that is what I am. (John 13:13)
        PAUL: There is... one Lord, Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 8:6)
        4. Jesus is God
        JESUS: Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe". (John 20:28-29)
        PAUL: From them, according to the flesh, comes the Messiah, who is over all, God blessed forever. (Romans 9:5)
        5. Jesus is Human
        JESUS: Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing what Abraham did, but now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God". (John 8:39-40)
        PAUL: There is also one mediator between God and humankind, Christ Jesus, himself human. (1 Timothy 2:5)
        6. Jesus was born of a woman
        JESUS: The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. And now, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you will name him Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High (Luke 1:30-32)
        PAUL: When the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman. (Galatians 4:4)
        7. God sent Jesus
        JESUS: I cam from God and now I am here. I did not come on my own, but he sent me. (John 8:42)
        PAUL: For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son. (Romans 8:3)
        8. Jesus is the way to the Father
        JESUS: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)
        PAUL: Through him both of us have access in one Spirit to the Father. (Ephesians 2:18)
        9. Jesus is Light
        JESUS: Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world". (John 8:12)
        PAUL: What fellowship is there between light and darkness? What agreement does Christ have with Beliar? (2 Corinthians 6:14-15)
        10. Jesus is life
        JESUS: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. (John 14:6)
        PAUL: When Christ who is your life is revealed. (Colossians 3:4)
        11. Jesus is the beginning
        JESUS: I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. (Revelation 22:13)
        PAUL: He is the beginning. (Colossians 1:18)
        12. Jesus is first
        JESUS: I am the first and the last, and the living one. I was dead, and see, I am alive for ever and ever. (Revelation 1:17-18)
        PAUL: He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might come to have first place in everything. (Colossians 1:18)
        13. Jesus is a descendent of David
        JESUS: The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. And now, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you will name him Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his ancestor David. (Luke 1:30-32)
        PAUL: Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, a descendant of David. (2 Timothy 2:8)
        14. Jesus is the Bridegroom
        JESUS: Now John's disciples and the Pharisees were fasting; and people came and said to him, "Why do John's disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?" Jesus said to them, "The wedding-guests cannot fast while the bridegroom is with them, can they? As long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast". (Mark 2:18-19)
        PAUL: I promised you in marriage to one husband, to present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:2)
        15. Jesus is King
        JESUS: Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my followers would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here". Pilate asked him, "So you are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king". (John 18:36-37)
        PAUL: No fornicator or impure person, or one who is greedy (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ. (Ephesians 5:5)
        16. Jesus descended from heaven
        JESUS: No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. (John 3:13)
        PAUL: When it says, "He ascended", what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? (Ephesians 4:9)
        17. Jesus is Saviour
        JESUS: God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. (John 3:17)
        PAUL: The saying is sure and worthy of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. (1 Timothy 1:15)
        18. Jesus is the truth
        JESUS: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. (John 14:6)
        PAUL: Surely you have heard about him and were taught in him, as truth is in Jesus. (Ephesians 4:21)
        19. Jesus was poor
        JESUS: Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head". (Matthew 8:20)
        PAUL: You know the generous act of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that by his poverty you might become rich. (2 Corinthians 8:9)
        20. The glory of God shines in the face of Jesus
        JESUS: Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and his brother John and led them up a high mountain, by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. (Matthew 17:1-2)
        PAUL: It is the God who said, "Let light shine out of darkness", who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 4:6)
        21. Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper
        JESUS: While they were eating, he took a loaf of bread, and after blessing it he broke it, gave it to them, and said, "Take; this is my body". Then he took a cup, and after giving thanks he gave it to them, and all of them drank from it. He said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many". (Mark 14:22-24)
        PAUL: I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me". (1 Corinthians 11:23-25)
        22. Jesus was betrayed
        JESUS: Jesus said, "Truly I tell you, one of you will betray me; one who is eating with me... The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that one by whom the Son of Man is betrayed!" (Mark 14:18, 21)
        PAUL: I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed. (1 Corinthians 11:23)
        23. Jesus testified before Pontius Pilate
        JESUS: Then Pilate entered the headquarters again, summoned Jesus, and asked him, "Are you the King of the Jews?" Jesus answered, "Do you ask this on your own, or did others tell you about me?" Pilate replied, "I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests have handed you over to me. What have you done?" Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my followers would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here". Pilate asked him, "So you are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. For this I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice". (John 18:33-37)
        PAUL: In the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession. (1 Timothy 6:13)
        24. Jesus suffered
        JESUS: Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and undergo great suffering. (Matthew 16:21)
        PAUL: Just as the sufferings of Christ are abundant for us. (2 Corinthians 1:5)
        25. Jesus died
        JESUS: Then Jesus cried out and breathed his last. (Mark 15:37)
        PAUL: We believe that Jesus died. (1 Thessalonians 4:14)

        Source: http://www.answering-islam.org/Wales/jesus_paul.htm
        Click on the link. Read and learn!

        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        You are the one who made claims for Paul that are contradicted in Acts [i.e. your scripture].
        How so?

        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        I repeat, as far as I can recall, Paul tells us exactly nothing about his socio-economic background nor his parentage[i.e. who his parents were and what social position they held].
        Actually Paul told us more than you evidently wish to know in Philippians 3 which you quoted oh so selectively from. Paul was of the Tribe of Benjamin! By birth a Jew! Educated at the feet of Gamaliel [the best the Jews had to offer!]! A Pharisee [a position of privilege and auhtority!] and on and on!!! And forsake it all for a live of pain, hunger, suffering, persecution, and a horrible death .... ALL FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS THE MESSIAH WITH NEVER ONCE DENYING THE TEH TRUTH OF HIS MESSAGE EVEN AT THE POINT OF DEATH!1

        You see only what you wish to see, ma'am.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Trucker View Post
          Here's some examples of Paul''s preaching:
          Producing a list of quotes is meaningless and entirely irrelevant.

          Originally posted by Trucker View Post
          How so?
          You wrote this “Paul, was born into the upper crust of Judaism, was well educated, and a privileged man” without an iota of evidence from his texts to support it.

          Originally posted by Trucker View Post
          And forsake it all for a live of pain, hunger, suffering, persecution, and a horrible death
          The tradition of Paul being martyred in Rome is precisely that. It is not an established historical fact.

          Originally posted by Trucker View Post
          You see only what you wish to see
          It appears you are guilty of the fault you ascribe to me.
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
            Producing a list of quotes is meaningless and entirely irrelevant.
            You are hilarious ...but sadly so!!! Then, according to you, there is nothing relevant unless you so designate it as such!!

            That's not the rules honest people would willingly submit themselves to and you know it ... your way or the highway! Doesn't work that way!! There is no blindness equal to willful blindness!!

            How obvious can you be????

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Trucker View Post
              You are hilarious ...but sadly so
              Ad hominem duly noted but making disparaging remarks towards your interlocutor is likewise both meaningless and irrelevant.
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                Ad hominem duly noted but making disparaging remarks towards your interlocutor is likewise both meaningless and irrelevant.
                Your rejection of extremely relevant material was also noted. It doesn't work that way with sincere and honest folks!!

                I'm probably done with it. It would appear you are not really interested

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Trucker View Post
                  Your rejection of extremely relevant material was also noted. It doesn't work that way with sincere and honest folks!!

                  I'm probably done with it. It would appear you are not really interested
                  You are surely aware of the observation that those who resort to personal comments have lost the argument!
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                    You are surely aware of the observation that those who resort to personal comments have lost the argument!
                    Rejecting extremely relevant quotes indicates no interest in a sincere discussion.

                    Your attitude ...not mine. Show me you have an interest in appropriate and relevant material. Until you do ......

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Trucker View Post
                      Rejecting extremely relevant quotes indicates no interest in a sincere discussion.
                      Bombarding one's interlocutor with irrelevant quote mining is not the basis for a "sincere discussion".
                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Trucker View Post
                        ]
                        Here's some examples of Paul''s preaching:

                        Click on the link. Read and learn!

                        Do you seriously expect Hypatia_Alexandria, or anyone, to respond to this mountain of mined quotes - all listed without any attempt to address each quote? This is a shameless Gish Gallop, i.e. the tactic of snowing your opponent with supposed “evidence” and claiming that a non-response proves your side to be right. It's popular among apologists who have a weak case - like you.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          Do you seriously expect Hypatia_Alexandria, or anyone, to respond to this mountain of mined quotes - all listed without any attempt to address each quote?
                          Why in the world would anyone expect someone who claims Paul was starting a new Religion to review a hundred [actually if they were to follow the links they would find multiple hundreds] of Scriptures comparing Paul's writings to the teaching of Jesus??? How silly of me!

                          Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          Do you seriouslyThis is a shameless Gish Gallop, i.e. the tactic of snowing your opponent with supposed “evidence” and claiming that a non-response proves your side to be right. It's popular among apologists who have a weak case - like you.
                          Supposed evidence? Really???

                          Flattery will get you nowhere!!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            Do you seriously expect Hypatia_Alexandria, or anyone, to respond to this mountain of mined quotes - all listed without any attempt to address each quote? This is a shameless Gish Gallop, i.e. the tactic of snowing your opponent with supposed “evidence” and claiming that a non-response proves your side to be right. It's popular among apologists who have a weak case - like you.
                            The quotes show the similarities between Paul and Jesus' teaching.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                              The quotes show the similarities between Paul and Jesus' teaching.
                              It interesting that in the selection of quotes we were given we find only four respectively from the gospels of Mark and from Matthew and yet fifteen from the gospel of John. I wonder why.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                                He preached his gospel and he was starting a new religion based on his own idiosyncratic beliefs. Jesus of Nazareth was not a Christian. Nor did he perceive himself to be the Lord of Glory or Christ Lord Jesus.
                                Maybe this short video will help you out of your confusion.

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUWtgVan3MM

                                Comment

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