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Thread: The reason people reject the resurrection

  1. #61
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    That still does not determine the year as specifically as you claim.
    Use this calendar tool: https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/calendar/
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    No help there is still a range of possible years.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  3. #63
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    No help there is still a range of possible years.
    Luke 3:1, ". . . Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, . . ."
    His first year is known to be 14AD. There is no year zero in countiing the years. So the fifteenth year gives us a starting year of 28AD for Jesus' ministry.

    John records three Passovers in Jesus' ministry. Making the crucifixion 30AD. According to 30AD Mark 14:12-16 would be on a Wednesday. Being the day before the crucifixion
    Last edited by 37818; 06-06-2020 at 02:39 PM.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  4. #64
    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Fair enough, and groups of people claimed to see Christ risen, and group hallucinations are unlikely.
    The earliest account of the resurrection is from Paul [I Corinthians 15:1-15] Given that he was establishing a new cult, it cannot be entirely ruled out that it was nothing but his imagination. Clearly from Paul's authentic letters he saw the crucifixion and resurrection in soteriological terms. We therefore cannot rule out the possibility that this was part of his own theological invention.
    "Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies."

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    The earliest account of the resurrection is from Paul [I Corinthians 15:1-15] Given that he was establishing a new cult, it cannot be entirely ruled out that it was nothing but his imagination. Clearly from Paul's authentic letters he saw the crucifixion and resurrection in soteriological terms. We therefore cannot rule out the possibility that this was part of his own theological invention.
    Based on the 4 gospel accounts there is a historical date for the crucifixion. Luke 3:1, Mark 14:12-16, And three Passovers in John's account.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Based on the 4 gospel accounts there is a historical date for the crucifixion. Luke 3:1, Mark 14:12-16, And three Passovers in John's account.
    Not overly reliable sources for historical accuracy.
    "Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies."

  7. #67
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    The earliest account of the resurrection is from Paul [I Corinthians 15:1-15] Given that he was establishing a new cult, it cannot be entirely ruled out that it was nothing but his imagination. Clearly from Paul's authentic letters he saw the crucifixion and resurrection in soteriological terms. We therefore cannot rule out the possibility that this was part of his own theological invention.
    1 Corinthians 15: 3 For I passed on to you as most important what I also received:

    that Christ died for our sins
    according to the Scriptures,
    4 that He was buried,
    that He was raised on the third day
    according to the Scriptures,
    5 and that He appeared to Cephas,
    then to the Twelve.
    6 Then He appeared to over 500 brothers at one time;
    most of them are still alive,
    but some have fallen asleep.
    7 Then He appeared to James,
    then to all the apostles.

    This is a creed passed down to Apostle Paul. It did not originate with him.

    1. Paul's words "delivered" and "received" are technical terms for passing on tradition. So, what Paul is saying is that this materials was not his own, but received from another source.

    2. A number of the words are non-Pauline which indicates another source. They are: "for our sins," "according to the scriptures," "he has been raised," the "third day," "he was seen," and "the twelve."

    3. The creed is organized in a stylized, parallel form, thereby indicating an oral and confessional nature.

    4. There are indications that there may be a Semitic source, such as the use of the Aramaic "Cephas" for Peter, which would point to an earlier source before Paul's Greek translation.

    5. Other indications of ancient Hebrew narration include the triple usage of "and that" along with the two references to the Scripture being fulfilled.

    Some date this creed from 2 to 5 years after Jesus' crucifixion.

  8. Amen DesertBerean amen'd this post.
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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Not overly reliable sources for historical accuracy.
    So you believe. That belief does not change the fact the New Testament account actually identifies an actual date in history.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  10. #69
    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    1 Corinthians 15: 3 For I passed on to you as most important what I also received:

    that Christ died for our sins
    according to the Scriptures,
    4 that He was buried,
    that He was raised on the third day
    according to the Scriptures,
    5 and that He appeared to Cephas,
    then to the Twelve.
    6 Then He appeared to over 500 brothers at one time;
    most of them are still alive,
    but some have fallen asleep.
    7 Then He appeared to James,
    then to all the apostles.

    This is a creed passed down to Apostle Paul. It did not originate with him.
    How do you know? Where are the accounts from those other 500+ individuals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Some date this creed from 2 to 5 years after Jesus' crucifixion.
    On what evidence?
    "Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies."

  11. #70
    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    So you believe. That belief does not change the fact the New Testament account actually identifies an actual date in history.
    What actual date would this be?
    "Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies."

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