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Exemplification of the PHONIESS of the left.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yeah, but I think it goes back to how scrambled this whole thing has been, with Fauci first saying mask wearing wasn't necessary, and, in fact, problematic (supposedly, in retrospect, because they wanted to make more masks available to first responders) and - add to that - the incredibly draconian manner in which people like the Governor of Michigan and some of the more liberal governors and mayors are going overboard with the lockdown, and the inconsistent manner in which it is applied.... it really does look like a bitterly partisan issue.

    I got a haircut this morning, and I took my mask in case they wanted me to wear it --- the owner told me "no, we'll wear the masks - and we're working behind you, so...."

    If they had wanted me to wear a mask, I certainly would have, but it would have made the haircut a bit of a challenge.
    Your barber just doesn't understand how aerosols circulate. You were in danger from any other unmasked customers, and the barbers are in constant danger as the masks dont work nearly as well keeping the wearer from inhaling the virus as they do keeping your exhaled virus from reaching another person.

    And if you understood that. You'd understand why the messaging on masks changed. Early on, the focus was on keeping a person from inhaling the virus. N95s are required for that, and there was a massive shortage with healthcare workers the most likely to be exposed.

    But with the discovery of asymptomatic spread, the focus shifted to what can masks do the help keep virus from traveling from an infected person.

    So there has been no mixed messaging, just a lot of ignorant people propagating destructive misinformation.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-28-2020, 10:54 AM.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      That is the ideological spin of the right.

      Here is a dose of reality wrt reporting police violence against citizens, or pointing out societal ills like racism.

      If you lived in a country where a citizen killing a citizen were as likely or more likely to hit the news that a killing by a police officer or other state authority, you would be living in a country with state run media. An oppressive state where abuses of power are routinely buried.

      The single most important function of a free press is to expose potential abuses of power by the governing authorities.

      Your conservative spin zone are trying to get you to reject that most important function and be critical of them and not the authorities abusing their power. Outrage is the natural consequence of reporting an abuse of power. And a divide between those aligned with the abusing power and those abused by it is inevitable. But Good people, people of conscience, must never find themselves supporting the abusers.

      Think about what would happen if the thing you are wishing for actually were to happen. If the press was muzzled and could no longer emphasize and make a really big deal out of potential abuses of power by state authorities. Or about likely racist murders buried by those same state authorities perhaps to protect 'one of their own'. Where the press tended to blindly support those authorities, muddying their objectivity in the worst possible way.
      There is police brutality occurring all over the country, happening against Latinos,Asians, whites, or blacks killed by blacks cops that are caught on video and aren't sensationalized this way. It's not about police brutality whatsoever. It's about setting a racial narrative that creates racial animosity in society, whether it's a white cop killing a black person or a white person killing a black person, and oftentimes they even create false narratives around the incident to push the animosity even deeper. They do the same thing with political divides, as demonstrated in the OP. Again, I don't know what the motive is though and I'd like to figure that out.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Yeah, but I think it goes back to how scrambled this whole thing has been, with Fauci first saying mask wearing wasn't necessary, and, in fact, problematic (supposedly, in retrospect, because they wanted to make more masks available to first responders) and - add to that - the incredibly draconian manner in which people like the Governor of Michigan and some of the more liberal governors and mayors are going overboard with the lockdown, and the inconsistent manner in which it is applied.... it really does look like a bitterly partisan issue.

        I got a haircut this morning, and I took my mask in case they wanted me to wear it --- the owner told me "no, we'll wear the masks - and we're working behind you, so...."

        If they had wanted me to wear a mask, I certainly would have, but it would have made the haircut a bit of a challenge.
        A number of politicians then did acknowledge that the messaging was intentionally misleading to preserve PPE, so I understand people's skepticism. Even Time Magazine ran a story a couple months ago with the tenor of "why are these dumb people wearing masks when the government is saying not to?" It took me a long time to come around myself on the issue.

        Mask wearing still is better than a lockdown, and I don't know if Trump realizes that by making fun of Biden for wearing masks (and by implication, discouraging many people from wearing them), he really is playing with fire due to how badly the economy needs to recover.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          Although I admit that is one way my post could be interpreted, what I actually approve of is citizens refusing to allow foolish or otherwise selfish individuals to put others in danger.

          Would you object to a crowd subduing a fellow coming in the store wildly swinging a knife?
          A lethal weapon that presents a clear and present danger, and is actually in violation of the law....

          I mean, he might not mean any harm I suppose, the poor fellow could just be incredibly naive or lack reasonable self awareness. But either way, he's gonna hurt someone and the people in the store preventing that would be a good and necessary thing.

          So the problem here is that the people outraged by that response are simply ignorant as to the potential danger that unmasked women presented to the rest of the people in the store.
          I'm not outraged, Jim - I think that was just a moronic and uncivil manner to address it.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            A number of politicians then did acknowledge that the messaging was intentionally misleading to preserve PPE, so I understand people's skepticism.
            Well, even that's problematic - because if they were intentionally misleading (which I personally don't buy) about that - what ELSE is there about which they are being intentionally misleading?

            Even Time Magazine ran a story a couple months ago with the tenor of "why are these dumb people wearing masks when the government is saying not to?" It took me a long time to come around myself on the issue.
            Yup.

            Mask wearing still is better than a lockdown, and I don't know if Trump realizes that by making fun of Biden for wearing masks (and by implication, discouraging many people from wearing them), he really is playing with fire due to how badly the economy needs to recover.
            Fact is - this whole thing has been bungled from the git go, and not just by Trump.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by seanD View Post
              There is police brutality occurring all over the country, happening against Latinos,Asians, whites, or blacks killed by blacks cops that are caught on video and aren't sensationalized this way. It's not about police brutality whatsoever. It's about setting a racial narrative that creates racial animosity in society, whether it's a white cop killing a black person or a white person killing a black person, and oftentimes they even create false narratives around the incident to push the animosity even deeper. They do the same thing with political divides, as demonstrated in the OP. Again, I don't know what the motive is though and I'd like to figure that out.
              That, again, is conservative spin. The racial inequities in our justice system are real, and they need to be exposed if they are to change. That is the job of the press, to expose injustice and abuses of power, especially by governing authorities.

              As for if there are other abuses of power by state authorities that are equally heinous but passed over by the press because it does not involve black victims, you'd need some real data to back that up. Data that shows alternate events in equal proportion. And data to shows purpose in them not making the news.
              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-28-2020, 11:30 AM.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                That, again, is conservative spin. The racial inequities in our justice system are real, and they need to be exposed if they are to change. That is the job of the press, to expose injustice and abuses of power, especially by governing authorities.

                As for if there are other abuses of power by state authorities that are equally heinous but passed over by the press because it does not involve black victims, you'd need some real data to back that up. Data that shows alternate events in equal proportion. And data to shows purpose in them not making the news.
                Good to know that concern over societal repercussions like riots and other racial violence caused by false and misleading reporting you consider "conservative spin." That shows your true mentality, as a leftist as it does the deceitful leftists in the OP.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  A lethal weapon that presents a clear and present danger, and is actually in violation of the law....
                  Covid 19 is a lethal virus, mortality between 1 and 2%

                  AFAIK, this women was violating the law. It most certainly is against the law to enter any store not wearing a mask in Maryland. April 15 Cuomo issued that same order in NY.


                  I'm not outraged, Jim - I think that was just a moronic and uncivil manner to address it.
                  I have mixed feelings. The language doesnt need to be rude. But public displays of intolerance for unsafe behavior are effective if they dont escalate.
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by seanD View Post
                    Good to know that concern over societal repercussions like riots and other racial violence caused by false and misleading reporting you consider "conservative spin." That shows your true mentality, as a leftist as it does the deceitful leftists in the OP.
                    Not reporting police abuse of power is worse than reporting it. That reporting the abuse can result in riots is a measure of how deep the outrage is in the community so abused. What it means is that the abuse is actually far more widespread than the reporting indicates. And a lot of people are very, very angry about it.

                    Unrest of that sort cant be whipped up by media reports in a vacuum. The problem is not the media, but the underlying environment that has created the sort of unrest and anger that can be pushed over the top by such a report.

                    There is 4 centuries of black slavery, followed by another century of racism, abuse, an poverty, followed by another 60 years of slow crawl away from that where black people are still far more oppressed than their white counterparts by poverty, poor schooling, crime, violence and racism.

                    Hiding the problems under the rug and not reporting them is the worst possible solution. But as long as people keep thinking more about the consequences of exposing the problems than the problems themselves, things are not likely to change.

                    Change comes by recognizing the problems and taking compensatory action.
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-28-2020, 11:58 AM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      Not reporting police abuse of power is worse than reporting it. That reporting the abuse can result in riots is a measure of how deep the outrage is in the community so abused. What it means is that the abuse is actually far more widespread than the reporting indicates. And a lot of people are very, very angry about it.

                      Unrest of that sort cant be whipped up by media reports in a vacuum. The problem is not the media, but the underlying environment that has created the sort of unrest and anger that can be pushed over the top by such a report.

                      There is 4 centuries of black slavery, followed by another century of racism, abuse, an poverty, followed by another 60 years of slow crawl away from that where black people are still far more oppressed than their white counterparts by poverty, poor schooling, crime, violence and racism.

                      Hiding the problems under the rug and not reporting them is the worst possible solution. But as long as people keep thinking more about the consequences of exposing the problems than the problems themselves, things are not likely to change.

                      Change comes by recognizing the problems and taking compensatory action.
                      Left media doesn't report these things because they care about black people, anymore than they care whether folks wear masks or not. If they did, they wouldn't be utter hypocrites and they'd make sure they get the facts straight in all these stories lest they create any misleading scenarios that might lead to a dangerous outcome. They just want the division for some reason. Maybe it gives them better ratings.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post
                        Left media doesn't report these things because they care about black people, anymore than they care whether folks wear masks or not. If they did, they wouldn't be utter hypocrites and they'd make sure they get the facts straight in all these stories lest they create any misleading scenarios that might lead to a dangerous outcome. They just want the division for some reason. Maybe it gives them better ratings.
                        This us nothing more than you venting your disdain for the media, a critical element to maintaining our freedom I would add. If/ When you feel like a more rational discussion of my post, feel free to create another reply to it and I'll try to respond in kind.
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          This us nothing more than you venting your disdain for the media, a critical element to maintaining our freedom I would add. If/ When you feel like a more rational discussion of my post, feel free to create another reply to it and I'll try to respond in kind.
                          An independent impartial press is a crucial element to maintaining our freedom but we don't have that. What we have is the propaganda wing of a political party.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            An independent impartial press is a crucial element to maintaining our freedom but we don't have that. What we have is the propaganda wing of a political party.
                            A propaganda wing that will actually stage phony scenarios or oftentimes report misleading facts about sensitive situations in order to create emotional and potential violent outcomes.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              An independent impartial press is a crucial element to maintaining our freedom but we don't have that. What we have is the propaganda wing of a political party.


                              Unless you refer to Fox and breitbart, that is just absurd. What we have is a president and an administration that pushes up so brashly against fundamental moral boundaries and expectations for government that what must be reported about him is almost universally negative. If the input is nearly always negative, then an unbiased reporting engine will also generate a nearly always negative output. Bias is not determined by the output, but the relationship between the input and the output.

                              The problem rogue is that you refuse to acknowledge how often what Trump does crosses red-line boundaries of morality and integrity in governance. These things MUST be reported or the free press is no longer the free press.

                              One would think that the objective nature of a virus like covid-19 which can be evaluated according to the science and scientific principles would bring into focus, and least for those somewhat trained in the sciences, just how ridiculously biased Trump and his supportive sources are. They along with Trump have spread lies and misinformation about this virus, how it behaves, its mortality, its infection rate, what we need to do in response to it. OTOH, In what you call "A propaganda wing" are the FACTS and the actual analysis of the data and medical doctors and scientists on the front lines of this situation.

                              And yet, you are unmoved. And yet, you still can write the above.
                              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-28-2020, 04:55 PM.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by seanD View Post
                                A propaganda wing that will actually stage phony scenarios or oftentimes report misleading facts about sensitive situations in order to create emotional and potential violent outcomes.
                                To justify 'oftentimes' one or two examples will not suffice. You need to show a real pattern of deception. So far you are tying bringing into focus events like the Georgia law enforcement burying a murder of a black man (Arbery) on behalf of a former white police officer and the suffocation of George Floyd in Minnesota into your final sentence.

                                That is just completely wrong. These events MUST be reported. Otherwise the press is not doing its job. If they are buried, they will not stop. And they MUST stop. You want to stop events like these, reports like these, consequential riots like these because what is reported is just the tip of the iceberg:

                                1) ZERO tolerance for racist police officers. The police itself must promote an internal culture that does NOT look the other way as happened with George Floyd. Having each other's back can't mean tolerating what happened in Minnesota - standing there and watching a man die under the knee of a fellow officer without taking action to stop it.

                                2) Aggressive action by all to root out racism from ourselves and our children. This is done by supporting efforts that will make a difference and governing officials that are not in the pockets of crime or big business. This is done by aggressively trying to understand why we are were we are. Uncovering what elements of racism are part of who we are. And by rejecting elements of our own culture that tolerate racially based ideas about people.

                                3) Recognition that until all children, regardless of skin color, have equal opportunities from day one, whose limitations are not related to their skin color, racism still lives in our nation.

                                Racism is in many ways part of who we are. If we don't actively combat it, we are most likely part of it.
                                Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-28-2020, 05:15 PM.
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

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