Advances in Chirality and other problems of abiogenesis in the Origins of Life

[shunyadragon]

One of the frequent challenges of abiogenesis by ID advocates and other fundamentalist creationists is the problem of the necessity of Chirality in life. The simple answer is yes, Chirality is necessary and did develop with the abiogenesis and the origins of life. The challenge by the IDers is that Chirality is Extremely unlikely, Arguing from ignorance is the achille's heal many ID arguments, because science often determines with research is possible and even likely.

The following is a very plausible process of how Chirality can come about naturally.

Source: https://scitechdaily.com/the-chiral-puzzle-of-life-cosmic-rays-may-have-left-indelible-imprint-on-early-life/

The Chiral Puzzle of Life: Cosmic Rays May Have Left Indelible Imprint on Early Life

© Copyright Original Source

[Sparko]

Your article outright says it is just speculation.

[shunyadragon]

Your article outright says it is just speculation.

Actually no. It does not say this is the way Chirality is achieved, but it does present a working model, based on basic physics and organic chemistry that demonstrates how it can occur naturally. Of course, it does outline the need for further research as to what would be needed to support this hypothesis.

You are misrepresenting what speculation is. The Evangelical Creationists are speculating that Chirality cannot occur naturally.

[Cow Poke]

Most of the Evangelicals I know believe very much in Charity.

[lee_merrill]

One of the frequent challenges of abiogenesis by ID advocates and other fundamentalist creationists is the problem of the necessity of Chirality in life. The simple answer is yes, Chirality is necessary and did develop with the abiogenesis and the origins of life. The challenge by the IDers is that Chirality is Extremely unlikely, Arguing from ignorance is the achille's heal many ID arguments, because science often determines with research is possible and even likely.

The following is a very plausible process of how Chirality can come about naturally.

Source: https://scitechdaily.com/the-chiral-puzzle-of-life-cosmic-rays-may-have-left-indelible-imprint-on-early-life/

The Chiral Puzzle of Life: Cosmic Rays May Have Left Indelible Imprint on Early Life

© Copyright Original Source

But a little chirality is not what is required, major chirality (or even homochirality, one wrong-handed molecule in the chain spoils it) is needed.

Blessings,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

But a little chirality is not what is required, major chirality (or even homochirality, one wrong-handed molecule in the chain spoils it) is needed.

Blessings,
Lee

True. So what? The research simply demonstrates how Chirality can take place naturally, and not whether is is a little or a lot.

[shunyadragon]

But a little chirality is not what is required, major chirality (or even homochirality, one wrong-handed molecule in the chain spoils it) is needed.

Blessings,
Lee

The bold is a bogus claim and the supposed need for some kind of pure chirality is not demonstrated by any evidence. It simply needs to be available in the environment for the preferential selection to form early life.

[shunyadragon]

Source: https://scitechdaily.com/did-life-emerge-in-the-primordial-soup-via-dna-or-rna-surprising-answer-from-new-research/

© Copyright Original Source

[lee_merrill]

The bold is a bogus claim and the supposed need for some kind of pure chirality is not demonstrated by any evidence.

It appears that one wrong-handed amino acid or sugar will spoil the molecule:

Source: Reasons to Believe

Source

© Copyright Original Source

Blessings,
Lee

[lee_merrill]

Source: https://scitechdaily.com/did-life-emerge-in-the-primordial-soup-via-dna-or-rna-surprising-answer-from-new-research/

© Copyright Original Source

Well, were these building blocks racemic?

Source: Reasons to Believe

These requirements demand that the origin of homochiral amino acids and ribose sugars must precede the origin of proteins, DNA, and RNA. That is, without preexisting large reservoirs of exclusively left-handed amino acids for each of the 19 bioactive amino acids and preexisting large reservoirs of exclusively right-handed ribose sugars, any naturalistic assembly of proteins, DNA, and RNA is ruled out. Without such reservoirs, naturalistic origin-of-life models are prohibited.

Source

© Copyright Original Source

Blessings,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

It appears that one wrong-handed amino acid or sugar will spoil the molecule:

Source: Reasons to Believe

Source

© Copyright Original Source

Blessings,
Lee

Not a reputable reference you keep referencing. You need to cite a peer reviewed independent scientific reference to justify your assertion.

[lee_merrill]

Not a reputable reference you keep referencing. You need to cite a peer reviewed independent scientific reference to justify your assertion.

Well, how about this?

Source: Chemistry World

³Source

© Copyright Original Source

Blessings,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

Well, how about this?

Source: Chemistry World

³Source

© Copyright Original Source

Blessings,
Lee

Good interesting article.

First, your selectively citing this reference to justify your agenda. Second the article references pros and cons of proposals for the formation of chirality, and discusses the presnet research in the origins of life. Third it does not come to the conclusions you do, nor those of the Creationist ilk. Read the whole article. Of course, the necessary nature of Charility has not been resolved, but there are a number of possibilities that contribute to possible solutions. It has been well known for a long time that inorganic substrates like iron compounds can be a catalyst for the early formation of the necessary organic compounds and RNA.

Several possibility from your source:

My view is the advantage of chirality compounds that were necessary and compatible for the formation of early early organics and RNA, particularly in the presence of catalysts. There is nothing here that concludes absolute pure chirality is necessary the first life to form and evolve.

[lee_merrill]

First, your selectively citing this reference to justify your agenda.

So you disagree with the quote? They say very clearly that homochirality is required.

Second the article references pros and cons of proposals for the formation of chirality, and discusses the presnet research in the origins of life.

Yes, but that wasn't the point under discussion here!

Third it does not come to the conclusions you do, nor those of the Creationist ilk. Read the whole article.

There is nothing here that concludes absolute pure chirality is necessary the first life to form and evolve.

[shunyadragon]

So you disagree with the quote? They say very clearly that homochirality is required.

Homchirality is an attribute of complex life, but developed during abiogenesis. The article addresses some of the research on how homochirality developed in abiogenesis. Absolutely nothing in the article states that 'absolute chirality is necessary in the natural organic process in the development of life. In fact the proposals in the article describe 'how homochirality developed over time.

Yes, but that wasn't the point under discussion here!

Yes it is!!!!! The pros and cons of how and when homochirality developed is most definitely at issue here. You are failing to acknowledge that the research demonstrates that homochirality can possibly develop in pre-life abiogenesis.

Selective citations do not justify your religious agenda. The proposals for the development of homochirality developed in the pre-life evolution that led to homochirality. I believe The Lurch has brought this up many times and you continue to ignore it.

Note, 'some peoples say . . . ' which is not worth quoting, because not all people say.