Advances in Chirality and other problems of abiogenesis in the Origins of Life

[lee_merrill]

The references document organics arriving and forming in large amounts during the asteroid impacts. Again your selective unethical dishonest citation of reverences to justify your agenda.

So please give me a quote from the article showing that large amounts arrived and formed during asteroid impacts.

Blessings,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

But pure homochirality is required if the first active biomolecule was a ribozyme.

again and again and again it is not required in abiogenesis where the homochirality developed as the research cited described. Pure homochirality evolved first as described in the research cited, and then the complex life evolved in part based on homochirality

So which attempt was a large chiral difference applicable to early earth?

Incoherent. Attempt?!?!!? All the research cited so far described how homochirality evolved during abiogenesis.

But this is another survey, I'm asking you to pick the best approach you have seen.

First, IT IS NOT A SURVEY. No one was polled to determine the winner. The two articles cited describe the various research results of how homochirality evolved in the processes during abiogenesis, before the complex RNA/DNA life evolved. Neither you nor I can 'pick the best approach. I referred to what I considered the best reference, and asked you to respond and failed to respond. It is also possible that more than one of the natural processes for the evolution of homochirality was involved with the development of homochirality. They all represent peer reviewed research based on organic chemistry and the environments of the Hadean Eon that can lead to the evolution of homochirality.

[lee_merrill]

again and again and again it is not required in abiogenesis where the homochirality developed as the research cited described. Pure homochirality evolved first as described in the research cited, and then the complex life evolved in part based on homochirality

Pure homochirality is required in abiogenesis, as stated in the article:

Source: Chemistry World

³Source

© Copyright Original Source

Incoherent. Attempt?!?!!? All the research cited so far described how homochirality evolved during abiogenesis.

Well, you may wish it did, but the research cited so far describes (unsuccessful) attempts to produce homochirality in early earth conditions.

The two articles cited describe the various research results of how homochirality evolved in the processes during abiogenesis, before the complex RNA/DNA life evolved.

So how did homochirality evolve? Let's have it on the table.

Blessings,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

So please give me a quote from the article showing that large amounts arrived and formed during asteroid impacts.

Blessings,
Lee

Your literate read it for yourself.

[shunyadragon]

Pure homochirality is required in abiogenesis, as stated in the article:

Source: Chemistry World

³why only single-handed chemistry can build biological polymers like RNA, and why the opposite handed molecules block assembly.Source

© Copyright Original Source

False default in your English and selective citation as unusual. All this refers to is the processes in RNA/DNA life and not the processes in abiogenesis before RNA/DNA life existed. Primitive pre-life forms did not have RNA. RNA did not exist until homochirality formed.

Well, you may wish it did, but the research cited so far describes (unsuccessful) attempts to produce homochirality in early earth conditions.

False please cite specifically where this research states that it is unsuccessful. Please be specific.

So how did homochirality evolve? Let's have it on the table.

Blessings,
Lee

Two articles presented one by you that describe different ways the chemical evolution of homechirality can take place.

[lee_merrill]

All this refers to is the processes in RNA/DNA life and not the processes in abiogenesis before RNA/DNA life existed. Primitive pre-life forms did not have RNA. RNA did not exist until homochirality formed.

Yet "no homochirality, no life" is a heading in the article, not "no homochirality, no RNA/DNA life."

False please cite specifically where this research states that it is unsuccessful. Please be specific.

Only one approach generated pure homochirality, and that approach wasn't applicable to early earth, as I recall. The article is behind a paywall now, and I can't copy from it.

Two articles presented one by you that describe different ways the chemical evolution of homechirality can take place.

No, two articles describing approaches that produced varying levels of chiral difference. Homochirality is still elusive.

Blessings,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

Yet "no homochirality, no life" is a heading in the article, not "no homochirality, no RNA/DNA life."

Miss quoting again as usual, "some people say

Only one approach generated pure homochirality, and that approach wasn't applicable to early earth, as I recall. The article is behind a paywall now, and I can't copy from it.

No, two articles describing approaches that produced varying levels of chiral difference. Homochirality is still elusive.

cshperspectives.cshlp.org/content/11/3/a032540.abstract is NOT behind a pay wall. It is free. Maybe your's is?

More shell game of vague 'arguing from ignorance.'Nothing specifically cited to support your case.

Still waiting . . .

'As I recall' . . . is not citing the articles specifically which you failed to do, Not true, and does not reflect the articles you selectively cited. I

Again several possibility from your source:Source:

Source: https://www.chemistryworld.com/features/the-origin-of-homochirality/9073.article

Her reaction worked best with the left-handed l-amino acid proline. Using just 1% excess of the l form, it was possible to produce a product of 100% chiral purity. The process works because the l-amino acid reacts at different rates with the two stereo*isomers of glyceraldehyde. The l-sugar reacts more quickly with the l-amino acid and, on reacting with the oxazole, produces a homochiral three-component product. A similar preference was seen with the right-handed d-amino acid and d-sugar.

© Copyright Original Source

[lee_merrill]

Miss quoting again as usual, "some people say

But I meant the section heading, not the text of the article. But "so far that seems to be true" also shows that homochirality is required.

Again several possibility from your source:Source:

Source: https://www.chemistryworld.com/features/the-origin-of-homochirality/9073.article

Her route to making RNA precursor molecules from racemic glyceraldehyde and 2-amino*oxazole still requires a chiral amino acid.

© Copyright Original Source

So it seems we're not there yet.

Blessings,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

But I meant the section heading, not the text of the article. But "so far that seems to be true" also shows that homochirality is required.

This is what I call selective citing to justify your agenda, and not considering the article as a whole, and the other research articles. The different articles give different perspectives and results concerning the evolution of chemical chirality.

So it seems we're not there yet.

Not a satisfactory response. Nothing in the research cited considered their work 'unsuccessful.' and the reached different conclusions. In fact one successful method achieved 100% homochirality.

Arguing from ignorance' does not go far, because science has usually advanced to address the unknowns claim by the ID apologists. Since scientists never approach the goals of science in absolute terms of achievement. Science could always be 'not there yet.'

[shunyadragon]

So please give me a quote from the article showing that large amounts arrived and formed during asteroid impacts. I has also been documented that asteroids and meteors have brought organics to the earth.

Blessings,
Lee

The article indeed documents the organics produced by the impacts, and this section describes the literal huge amount of asteroid involved over the vast time the span of the Asteroid impact period of the Hadean Eon.

[lee_merrill]

The article indeed documents the organics produced by the impacts, and this section describes the literal huge amount of asteroid involved over the vast time the span of the Asteroid impact period of the Hadean Eon.

So where does it say huge? Huge iron flux, but "not small" amino acid production, though it's difficult to estimate precisely.

Blessings,
Lee

[lee_merrill]

This is what I call selective citing to justify your agenda, and not considering the article as a whole, and the other research articles. The different articles give different perspectives and results concerning the evolution of chemical chirality.

But all this has no bearing on the clear statement "no homochirality, no life."

Not a satisfactory response. Nothing in the research cited considered their work 'unsuccessful.' and the reached different conclusions. In fact one successful method achieved 100% homochirality.

Starting with chiral amino acids! So this would not be attuned to early earth.

Blessings,
Lee

[shunyadragon]

So where does it say huge? Huge iron flux, but "not small" amino acid production, though it's difficult to estimate precisely.

Blessings,
Lee

I cited the reference, but I do take into consideration your weakness in math to understand the numbers in the reference. 'Huge' is just a word, but it is very descriptive of amount of asteroids and the associated organics described in the article. The article is well documented based on the evidence which your evading, and no need for splitting 'frog hairs'over 'precise amounts.'

[shunyadragon]

But all this has no bearing on the clear statement "no homochirality, no life."

First, it is taken out of context, and again you are dishonestly selectively citing one phrase, and ignoring the whole article, which I have previously cited. Remember the article also 'some say . . . ' in the article. The conclusion of the whole article is NOT "no homochirality, no life."

Starting with chiral amino acids! So this would not be attuned to early earth.

Blessings,
Lee

No basis for this conclusion based on the whole context of the articles cited. The articles specifically demonstrated on how homochirality can form by chemical evolution in abiogenesis.

[lee_merrill]

Well, we're just going back and forth, to no avail, so I'll let you have the last word.

Blessings,
Lee