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Thread: Trump exposed

  1. #31
    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Who says it is wrong?
    I would, I don't consider it fair or even historically accurate to blame that virus on Spain. A more accurate name would be Kansas flu, and I wouldn't consider that right either. Same with calling it the racist terms about China, it doesn't follow the evidence and it blames a country for something that is a natural occurrence. China can be blamed in how they responded and kept it under the lid, the WHO is fair game for criticism in covering for China playing a stupid political game of favors, but blaming the virus itself on China...

    Well, that's just racism, to be frank. I get why conservatives here do it, some here get a rise of "saying the opposite of what 'they' want us to say". But it doesn't change what it is.

  2. #32
    God bless the USA. Ack!! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    I would, I don't consider it fair or even historically accurate to blame that virus on Spain. A more accurate name would be Kansas flu, and I wouldn't consider that right either. Same with calling it the racist terms about China, it doesn't follow the evidence and it blames a country for something that is a natural occurrence. China can be blamed in how they responded and kept it under the lid, the WHO is fair game for criticism in covering for China playing a stupid political game of favors, but blaming the virus itself on China...

    Well, that's just racism, to be frank. I get why conservatives here do it, some here get a rise of "saying the opposite of what 'they' want us to say". But it doesn't change what it is.
    Calling a virus by its country of origin is simply not racism. I see why liberals here claim it is, because it can continue to feed the narrative. But it just... isn't.

  3. #33
    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Calling a virus by its country of origin is simply not racism. I see why liberals here claim it is, because it can continue to feed the narrative. But it just... isn't.
    It depends on how you define racism. The working definition that most liberals use of racism isn't merely discrimination based on race or attributing bad essential characteristics to a person because of their race, ethnicity or nationality. It is ultimately a matter of a system that favors one race/ethnicity/nationality over the other in a narrative, where the ones benefitting from it are in the position of power. Attributing the virus to Asia is just another form of this. Your intention in saying it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not it is racist.

  4. #34
    God bless the USA. Ack!! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    It depends on how you define racism. The working definition that most liberals use of racism isn't merely discrimination based on race or attributing bad essential characteristics to a person because of their race, ethnicity or nationality. It is ultimately a matter of a system that favors one race/ethnicity/nationality over the other in a narrative, where the ones benefitting from it are in the position of power. Attributing the virus to Asia is just another form of this. Your intention in saying it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not it is racist.
    Again, calling something by its country of origin is simply not racist. That people have made it so is in no way an indicator that the label is racist, just the one acting like a moron because of it.


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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Calling a virus by its country of origin is simply not racism. I see why liberals here claim it is, because it can continue to feed the narrative. But it just... isn't.
    As noted in my post the FBI has said that Asian Americans face increasing danger of hate attacks due to Coronavirus. The virus already has a scientifically derived name which adequately describes and which predates "China Flu / Wuhan Virus / Kung Flu etc." Americans, including children, have been violently attacked *already*. This has nothing to do with "liberals" and everything to do with the "[forget] your feelings" crowd having a laugh and enjoying some casual racism.

    As I've stated and will continue to state: This directly affects my family. It is unconscionable that Christians would use a term which has even an outside chance of inspiring a single unnecessary act of violence or lead a single individual towards the path of hate. I can't believe this has to be explained.

    ETA: Something doesn't have to be "inherently racist" for it to promote racism. Everyone on this board agrees that African Americans commit a disproportionate amount of crime. That data point can be used in many different ways, including racist ones.
    Last edited by DivineOb; 06-02-2020 at 11:04 AM.

  6. #36
    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Again, calling something by its country of origin is simply not racist..
    It is not technically correct, and it perpetuates stereotypes about Asians, and this makes it racist, regardless of the intentions of the speaker.

  7. #37
    God bless the USA. Ack!! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineOb View Post
    As noted in my post the FBI has said that Asian Americans face increasing danger of hate attacks due to Coronavirus.
    Because of where it originated, not its name.

    The virus already has a scientifically derived name which adequately describes and which predates "China Flu / Wuhan Virus / Kung Flu etc."
    So does the influenza virus. So does human papillomavirus. And so on. And we have named them after places for quite a while. West Nile Virus. Zika. Ebola. Middle East Respiratory Syndrome. Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. Norovirus. And the list goes on.

    Americans, including children, have been violently attacked *already*. This has nothing to do with "liberals" and everything to do with the "[forgot] your feelings" crowd having a laugh and enjoying some casual racism.
    It has to do with idiots who don't care what you call it. Look at the Sikh people who were attacked after 9-11.

    As I've stated and will continue to state: This directly affects my family.
    So, if it were never called Chinese Flu, your family would be safe?

    It is unconscionable that Christians would use a term which has even an outside chance of inspiring a single unnecessary act of violence or lead a single individual towards the path of hate. I can't believe this has to be explained.
    And we can not control the actions of those who are too stupid to realize that not every person of Chinese descent carries COVID-19.

    ETA: Something doesn't have to be "inherently racist" for it to promote racism. Everyone on this board agrees that African Americans commit a disproportionate amount of crime. That data point can be used in many different ways, including racist ones.
    As I stated above, a name will not matter to someone who is disposed to stupidity.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  8. #38
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Because of where it originated, not its name.
    Right. But calling it the "China flu" makes that issue worse.


    So does the influenza virus. So does human papillomavirus. And so on. And we have named them after places for quite a while. West Nile Virus. Zika. Ebola. Middle East Respiratory Syndrome. Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. Norovirus. And the list goes on.
    Ok. And if it were found that people from those places were facing persecution which was made worse due to the name attached to that virus wouldn't you agree that the right thing to do would be to use a different name? How is this even a discussion? Didn't people used to call AIDS the "gay plague"? What was wrong with that name?


    It has to do with idiots who don't care what you call it. Look at the Sikh people who were attacked after 9-11.
    Sure. But we live in a world populated with idiots. So responsible people take the general population into account when deciding how they should behave.


    So, if it were never called Chinese Flu, your family would be safe?
    Safer, yes. Shouldn't I, as a husband and a father, take every opportunity to make them safer?


    And we can not control the actions of those who are too stupid to realize that not every person of Chinese descent carries COVID-19.
    As I pointed out to MM, the bible calls you to account for how your actions affect those who are new in Christ. Why is this not like that?


    As I stated above, a name will not matter to someone who is disposed to stupidity.
    Perhaps it won't matter to those who are truly far gone (say, a typical RWNJ). But we live in a population on a spectrum. There are some individuals who *will* be nudged towards behavior we both oppose when they hear the message which can be taken as "this group is to blame for your problems." Are you going to claim that such individuals don't exist? That there is a hard bifurcation of the population between "idiots" and "saints"?
    Last edited by DivineOb; 06-02-2020 at 11:35 AM.

  9. #39
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    It depends on how you define racism. The working definition that most liberals use of racism isn't merely discrimination based on race or attributing bad essential characteristics to a person because of their race, ethnicity or nationality. It is ultimately a matter of a system that favors one race/ethnicity/nationality over the other in a narrative, where the ones benefitting from it are in the position of power. Attributing the virus to Asia is just another form of this. Your intention in saying it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not it is racist.
    Saying a country is equivalent to a race of people is racist. If you said that the USA was the same as "the white race" you would be a racist, right? Saying China is the same as the Asian race is racist.

  10. #40
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whateverman View Post
    Me.

    Viruses aren't nationalistic; the people who use them for propaganda are.
    Traditionally, we have named diseases after where the first outbreak is noticed. The only exception now seems to be when China is involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Here is a partial list I've put together and is far from exhaustive

    • Aden Fever (a form of Dengue Fever named after the capital of Yemen)
    • American trypanosomiasis (a.k.a. Chagas disease and named after the American continents -- and Chagas was the name of a Brazilian doctor)
    • Devonshire colic (named after the English county)
    • Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever (named after the Ebola River in west Africa)
    • German Measles (named after the German doctors who first described it)
    • Guinea Worm (named after the Guinea coast of West Africa)
    • Hantavirus (named after the Hantan river in South Korea)
    • Hendra virus (named after a suburb of Brisbane, Australia)
    • Japanese Encephalitis
    • La Crosse Encephalitis (named after La Crosse, Wisconsin)
    • Lassa Fever (named after Lassa, Nigeria)
    • Legionnaires' Disease (named after the 1976 American Legion convention in Philadelphia -- even the name of the bacteria responsible reflects this)
    • Lyme Disease (named after Lyme, Connecticut)
    • Marburg Virus Disease (named after Marburg, Germany)
    • MERS (Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome, which came from the Arabian Peninsula)
    • Norovirus (named after the city of Norwalk, Ohio)
    • Omsk Hemorrhagic Fever (named after Omsk Russia)
    • Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever (named after the North American mountain chain)
    • Ross River Fever (named after the river in Australia)
    • Salonika or Salonica Fever (often called Trench Fever and named after Thessaloniki, Greece)
    • Spanish Flu
    • St. Louis Encephalitis
    • Valley Fever (named after San Joaquin Valley of California)
    • West Nile Virus (named after the West Nile district of Uganda)
    • Zika fever (named after the Ziika Forest of Uganda).

    Moreover, isn't it funny how it was alright for those in the MSM to refer to it as Wuhan coronavirus and Chinese coronavirus right up to the instant Trump did and then magically the same folks who had been using those same terms puffed out their chests and self-righteously started squeaking and screeching about racism and xenophobia. HERE is a video of members of the MSM using those terms dozens of times right up until Trump did as well.

    And I should also note that a Nexis search revealed that Asian news services were also calling it the Wuhan virus.

    So much for it being racist.





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