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  • #46
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    So it magically became racist just for this one disease and was just fine before that?
    Correct, the intent of Trump and those of you who continue to use it, was to cast blame, not to point out where it originated.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      That they predate January of 2020 is going to be pretty much a given since we usually don't have a different epidemic or pandemic every month or so.
      You think those video clips predate *January*? Not the ones I recognized but ok :).

      Still some are very recent like MERS and West Nile Virus.
      I'd be fine with not naming a disease after the location from which it originates because I don't see how that is helpful and it has the potential to go wrong. What's wrong with retiring the "China Flu" name since we now have Americans being persecuted?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
        Right. But calling it the "China flu" makes that issue worse.
        Saying it originated in Wuhan Market does the same thing.


        Ok. And if it were found that people from those places were facing persecution which was made worse due to the name attached to that virus wouldn't you agree that the right thing to do would be to use a different name?
        You'd be hard pressed to prove that the name was the contributing factor.

        How is this even a discussion? Didn't people used to call AIDS the "gay plague"? What was wrong with that name?
        Because it is not accurate or the same. The HIV virus did not originate in a place called "gay".


        Sure. But we live in a world populated with idiots. So responsible people take the general population into account when deciding how they should behave.
        True. But you can't account for everything that someone will use for inspiration to act a fool. See Charles Manson and the White Album for instance.


        Safer, yes. Shouldn't I, as a husband and a father, take every opportunity to make them safer?
        So, are you going to fight next to suppress the origin of the virus? Because THAT is much more impactful to idiots looking for "payback" for the virus.


        As I pointed out to MM, the bible calls you to account for how your actions affect those who are new in Christ. Why is this not like that?
        It's a "where do you draw the line" thing. You have no idea what makes someone else stumble, so you can only act according to what you know offends them.


        Perhaps it won't matter to those who are truly far gone (say, a typical RWNJ).
        Or a LWNJ

        But we live in a population on a spectrum. There are some individuals who *will* be nudged towards behavior we both oppose when they hear the message which can be taken as "this group is to blame for your problems." Are you going to claim that such individuals don't exist? That there is a hard bifurcation of the population between "idiots" and "saints"?
        Oh, no doubt. But again, what is more important to squash from this perspective? The name or the information itself of where it came from? The first is transient. The second is not. Changing the name does not change the origin.
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        - Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          So it magically became racist just for this one disease and was just fine before that?
          It became racist to continue using the term the moment people in our society started singling out Asian people for persecution. Just like when I used the term "spear chucker" once in a totally non-racist way to describe literal spear wielders in a video game it wasn't racist but if I used it again, now that I know better, it *would* be racist.

          I would even go as far as to say that, in a not too large number of years, it wouldn't really be racist to use the term "China Flu" anymore. Just like the word "Queer" is mostly used in non-homophobic ways now. Context and society matter when determining what is appropriate or not.
          Last edited by DivineOb; 06-02-2020, 02:16 PM.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by JimL View Post
            ...you're just feigning ignorance as usual.
            Sorry, Jimmy... the last thing I want to feign is acting like you.
            That's what
            - She

            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
            - Stephen R. Donaldson

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
              It became racist to continue using the term the moment people in our society started singling out Asian people for persecution. Just like when I used the term "spear chucker" once in a totally non-racist way to describe literal spear wielders in a video game it wasn't racist but if I used it again, now that I know better, it *would* be racist.

              I would even go as far as to say that, in a not too large number of years, it wouldn't really be racist to use the term "China Flu" anymore. Just like the word "Queer" is mostly used in non-homophobic ways now. Context and society matter when determining what is appropriate or not.
              You think they did it just because of the name? That these turds couldn't figure out where it came from no matter what it was called? That they wouldn't be racist thugs if only we didn't call the disease based on the country it came from? Dream on.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                You think they did it just because of the name? That these turds couldn't figure out where it came from no matter what it was called? That they wouldn't be racist thugs if only we didn't call the disease based on the country it came from? Dream on.
                That's a total straw man. I didn't say that they would have no idea where it came from. I said that the FBI has explicitly warned that anti-Asian hate is on the rise. Therefore, I'm saying, that anything which could unnecessarily feed that hate should be avoided.

                *WHY* not just do this simple thing? Why die on *this* hill?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                  That's a total straw man. I didn't say that they would have no idea where it came from. I said that the FBI has explicitly warned that anti-Asian hate is on the rise. Therefore, I'm saying, that anything which could unnecessarily feed that hate should be avoided.

                  *WHY* not just do this simple thing? Why die on *this* hill?
                  I have no hill to defend. I am just saying your argument is fallacious. You seem to think that what we call a disease causes bad people to beat up asians. They would do it no matter what we called it. Bad people are bad people. They need no excuse to be hateful.

                  I could use your same argument to say that we should not allow black people to peacefully protest any injustice to them because rioting is on the rise, so we should avoid any unnecessary gatherings that could be used as an excuse to riot and loot.

                  ( I personally call it COVID-19. )

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Traditionally, we have named diseases after where the first outbreak is noticed. The only exception now seems to be when China is involved.

                    Moreover, isn't it funny how it was alright for those in the MSM to refer to it as Wuhan coronavirus and Chinese coronavirus right up to the instant Trump did and then magically the same folks who had been using those same terms puffed out their chests and self-righteously started squeaking and screeching about racism and xenophobia. HERE is a video of members of the MSM using those terms dozens of times right up until Trump did as well.

                    And I should also note that a Nexis search revealed that Asian news services were also calling it the Wuhan virus.

                    So much for it being racist.
                    Naming those things for specific geographic locations rather than nations removes nationalism from the equation. Most of the items in your list avoid that problem.

                    Spanish Flu, American Trypanosomiasis and German Measles are all examples of what I'm referring to as bad. They ARE bad, because they lay blame upon an entire country, rather than the specific place where the malady emerged from.

                    Wuhan Virus is fine; Chinese Virus is not. And when spoken by a nationalist, the nomenclature makes all the difference.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                      Naming those things for specific geographic locations rather than nations removes nationalism from the equation. Most of the items in your list avoid that problem.

                      Spanish Flu, American Trypanosomiasis and German Measles are all examples of what I'm referring to as bad. They ARE bad, because they lay blame upon an entire country, rather than the specific place where the malady emerged from.

                      Wuhan Virus is fine; Chinese Virus is not. And when spoken by a nationalist, the nomenclature makes all the difference.
                      Since when is naming something "assigning blame"?
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        I have no hill to defend. I am just saying your argument is fallacious. You seem to think that what we call a disease causes bad people to beat up asians. They would do it no matter what we called it. Bad people are bad people. They need no excuse to be hateful.

                        I could use your same argument to say that we should not allow black people to peacefully protest any injustice to them because rioting is on the rise, so we should avoid any unnecessary gatherings that could be used as an excuse to riot and loot.

                        ( I personally call it COVID-19. )
                        Subtle differences in how we speak can have a significant impact when considering a society as large and racist as ours is. Look at how openly hostile Trump is to reporters of Asian descent on camera! WH officials have used the term "Kung Flu" openly! You're telling me Trump's easily manipulated base won't put 2 and 2 together?

                        If you really want to drill into your rioting example we can but honestly it's a bad enough analogy I doubt you will actually stand behind it.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                          Subtle differences in how we speak can have a significant impact when considering a society as large and racist as ours is. Look at how openly hostile Trump is to reporters of Asian descent on camera! WH officials have used the term "Kung Flu" openly! You're telling me Trump's easily manipulated base won't put 2 and 2 together?

                          If you really want to drill into your rioting example we can but honestly it's a bad enough analogy I doubt you will actually stand behind it.
                          Ah so now you are just attacking Trump's base, calling them both gullible and racist. I think we are done here.

                          I knew there was an agenda in your argument somewhere. Thanks for exposing it.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Ah so now you are just attacking Trump's base, calling them both gullible and racist. I think we are done here.

                            I knew there was an agenda in your argument somewhere. Thanks for exposing it.
                            So you don't agree that a good portion of Trump's base is gullible and racist?! Is that really in dispute?

                            In any case, it's obvious you're desperate for an excuse to run away so go ahead :).

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              I have no hill to defend. I am just saying your argument is fallacious. You seem to think that what we call a disease causes bad people to beat up asians. They would do it no matter what we called it. Bad people are bad people. They need no excuse to be hateful.

                              I could use your same argument to say that we should not allow black people to peacefully protest any injustice to them because rioting is on the rise, so we should avoid any unnecessary gatherings that could be used as an excuse to riot and loot.

                              ( I personally call it COVID-19. )
                              The point is that Trump maliciously calls it ‘chinese’ to deflect accountability for this ongoing crisis and hope there are people that are naive or simple enough to actually believe that China is to blame for everything bad that’s currently happening in the US as a result of this pandemic. It’s these idiots that then go out and assault asians believing they are to blame for this current state.

                              Trump didn’t cross out ‘corona’ in his speech and replace it with ‘China’ because people needed to know where it originated from. It’s clearly become a malicious term which is why most people have stopped calling it that and the people that still call it that know exactly why they do it.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                                So you don't agree that a good portion of Trump's base is gullible and racist?! Is that really in dispute?
                                Gullible, yes, as most Americans are. Racist? Define "a good portion"...

                                In any case, it's obvious you're desperate for an excuse to run away so go ahead :).
                                Mic dropping isn't running away.
                                That's what
                                - She

                                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                                Comment

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