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I'm beginning to doubt Trump's relection chances

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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    You seem smarter than mindlessly chanting slogans and mantras.
    If by that you're referring to facts about objective reality, then please consider me guilty as charged.

    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    The facts are just not on your side here.

    Today's Democrat Party has a think veneer over it which is the only difference between them now and then.
    You really ought to spend time and read a bit about the history of political parties in this country. Southern Democrats used to be the party of small government, minimalist social programs in favor of personal responsibility - and racial segregation. They were the ones who sheltered and even supported the emergence of the Christian KKK.

    Where has the KKK been found in the 20th century? Southern Republican states.
    Which party cuts social programs in favor of fiscal responsibility? Republicans.
    Which party repeatedly pushes for smaller government? Republicans.

    History is not on your side, I'm afraid.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      [ATTACH=CONFIG]45652[/ATTACH]
      None of which are relevant. Sorry.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
        Which party repeatedly pushes for smaller government? Republicans.
        This criticism always gets my attention. It's like "bigger government" is more virtuous, ignoring the waste and bloat.
        I'm for smaller government in the sense that it needs to be efficient and actually DO something.
        I'm much more in favor of local government where the politicians are more accountable to the people.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          This criticism always gets my attention. It's like "bigger government" is more virtuous, ignoring the waste and bloat.
          I didn't imply that, and if it appeared otherwise, I'll state explicitly that there are pros and cons of both larger and smaller government; neither is inherently more virtuous than the other.

          It wasn't a criticism. Governmental bloat / inefficiency is a real problem.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
            I didn't imply that, and if it appeared otherwise, I'll state explicitly that there are pros and cons of both larger and smaller government; neither is inherently more virtuous than the other.

            It wasn't a criticism. Governmental bloat / inefficiency is a real problem.
            OK, so when 'us conservatives' talk about smaller government, it doesn't mean we want to hurt people - we just want to reign in the bloat.
            And I like the 'government' assistance to be local, where I can keep an eye on it, and fire people who abuse it.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              If the extreme left wing fringe nutters keep pushing the envelope, and the Democrats don't stand up to it, or distance themselves from it, it could actually work to reelect Trump.

              It's too soon to see how this unfolds - the extreme fringe has gone stark raving mad, and it may fracture the Democratic party so badly....

              IF the moderate Dems, or even the "leftist" Dems DO stand up to the extreme left fringe nutters, the ELFN may turn on the....

              Who knows!
              Moderate Dem's need to take a stand against AntiFa. If Trump Hopes to win swing voters then he should stand up to the Alt-Right. If the Republicans wanted to keep their seats in Congress they would not back everything Trump says. Or they could just give him the cold shoulder, which is pretty effective against Narcissists. Actually if everyone gave Trump the cold shoulder he might just get bored and go find some other way to see if he can get attention.
              A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
              George Bernard Shaw

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
                Moderate Dem's need to take a stand against AntiFa. If Trump Hopes to win swing voters then he should stand up to the Alt-Right. If the Republicans wanted to keep their seats in Congress they would not back everything Trump says. Or they could just give him the cold shoulder, which is pretty effective against Narcissists. Actually if everyone gave Trump the cold shoulder he might just get bored and go find some other way to see if he can get attention.
                We know what antifa is and some of the violent acts they've engaged in, so what is the alt-right (define it to me) and what violent acts have they done recently that Trump "should stand up to."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  OK, so when 'us conservatives' talk about smaller government, it doesn't mean we want to hurt people - we just want to reign in the bloat.
                  That's a reasonable interpretation, yes. There are times when I think the smaller government idea would end up hurting some citizens, but this probably isn't the intent of pushing for such things.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                    That's a reasonable interpretation, yes. There are times when I think the smaller government idea would end up hurting some citizens, but this probably isn't the intent of pushing for such things.
                    The problem, in my view, is that 'government' can always find 'a problem', exaggerate it beyond the ability of anybody but the government to address it, create a whole bureaucracy (or 2 or 12) to "solve" it, never manage to solve it because it needs more money, rinse, repeat.....

                    In local government, we don't have that option. We can't print money. We can only spend the money the taxpayers allow us to budget, and have to work within those limitations. The Federal government, in my opinion, would do FAR better at block grants to local government, than bungling the solutions themselves.

                    Granted, there ARE some problems and opportunities that go beyond local or state jurisdictions, but still.... MULTIPLE overlapping agencies spending TRILLIONS of dollars...
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      The problem, in my view, is that 'government' can always find 'a problem', exaggerate it beyond the ability of anybody but the government to address it, create a whole bureaucracy (or 2 or 12) to "solve" it, never manage to solve it because it needs more money, rinse, repeat.....

                      In local government, we don't have that option. We can't print money. We can only spend the money the taxpayers allow us to budget, and have to work within those limitations. The Federal government, in my opinion, would do FAR better at block grants to local government, than bungling the solutions themselves.

                      Granted, there ARE some problems and opportunities that go beyond local or state jurisdictions, but still.... MULTIPLE overlapping agencies spending TRILLIONS of dollars...
                      I've been a fiscal conservative for decades now. Yer preachin' to the choir, good buddy :)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                        I've been a fiscal conservative for decades now. Yer preachin' to the choir, good buddy :)
                        And, now for our Hymn of Invitation....
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          And, now for our Hymn of Invitation....
                          Sorry. Conservatives have hitched their wagons to things I will never be able to support.

                          This is one of the reasons I call myself an moderate independent; terms like Liberal or Conservative or Democrat or Liberal do not accurately pigeonhole my worldview.

                          I actually think there are a lot of people like me; most of them are incorrectly assigned labels like liberal or conservative...
                          Last edited by Whateverman; 06-16-2020, 02:39 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                            Sorry. Conservatives have hitched their wagons to things I will never be able to support.

                            This is one of the reasons I call myself an moderate independent; terms like Liberal or Conservative or Democrat or Liberal do not accurately pigeonhole my worldview.

                            I actually think there are a lot of people like me; most of them are incorrectly assigned labels like liberal or conservative...
                            Not exactly sure to what that...
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                              Sorry. Conservatives have hitched their wagons to things I will never be able to support.

                              This is one of the reasons I call myself an moderate independent; terms like Liberal or Conservative or Democrat or Liberal do not accurately pigeonhole my worldview.

                              I actually think there are a lot of people like me; most of them are incorrectly assigned labels like liberal or conservative...
                              Not exactly sure to what that...
                              With all due respect, this isn't a sentence I can parse.

                              I will clarify upon request. I'm happy to listen to questions that can't be asked simply, as long as the questions are asked sincerely

                              ps. sorry if that sounds annoying. I only mean that I'm used to people trying to waste the time of the folks they don't agree with, so if someone asks me a question that sounds sincere - I'll happily spends lots of effort to answer it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                                With all due respect, this isn't a sentence I can parse.
                                Wasn't understanding why you responded like you did to ... whatever part of whatever I said...

                                I will clarify upon request. I'm happy to listen to questions that can't be asked simply, as long as the questions are asked sincerely

                                ps. sorry if that sounds annoying. I only mean that I'm used to people trying to waste the time of the folks they don't agree with, so if someone asks me a question that sounds sincere - I'll happily spends lots of effort to answer it.
                                Next time around.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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