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Thread: Are Police Systematically Racist?

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Are Police Systematically Racist?

    No! I urge you to go to the link and click on the actual studies included.

    Some of the most comprehensive information we have comes from a 2001 Bureau of Justice Statistics report examining incidents where police in the United States used deadly force to kill criminal suspects between 1976 and 1998. During that 23-year span, 42% of all suspects killed by police were black – a figure that comported precisely with the percentage of violent crimes committed by African Americans during that same period. This is enormously significant because we would expect that in police forces not plagued by systemic racism, officers would shoot suspects of various racial or ethnic backgrounds at rates closely resembling their respective involvement in the types of serious crimes most likely to elicit the use of force by police. And indeed, that is exactly what the evidence shows.

    Moreover, in nearly two-thirds of all justifiable homicides by police during 1976-98, the officer’s race and the suspect’s race were the same. When a white or Hispanic officer killed a suspect, that suspect was usually (63% of the time) white or Hispanic as well. And when a black officer killed a suspect, that suspect was usually black (81% of the time).

    How about the rate at which officers killed suspects of other racial or ethnic backgrounds? In 1998, the “black-officer-kills-black-felon” rate was 32 per 100,000 black officers, more than double the rate at which white and Hispanic officers killed black felons (14 per 100,000). That same year, the rate at which white and Hispanic officers killed white or Hispanic felons (28 per 100,000) was much higher than the “black-officer-kills-white-or-Hispanic-felon” rate of 11 per 100,000.

    In 1999, criminologists Geoffrey Alpert and Roger Dunham confirmed once again that police officers were more likely to use force against suspects of their own racial group, than against suspects from another racial group.

    A 2011 Bureau of Justice Statistics study which covered the period from 2003 to 2009 sheds further light on the issue of police use of force against people of various racial and ethnic backgrounds. Of all suspects who are known to have been killed by police during that 7-year time frame, 41.7% were white, 31.7% were black, and 20.3% were Hispanic. It is also worth noting that during the 2003-2009 period—when blacks were 31.7% of all suspects killed by an officer—blacks accounted for about 38.5% of all arrests for violent crimes, which are the types of crimes most likely to trigger potentially deadly confrontations with police. These numbers do not in any way suggest a lack of restraint by police in their dealings with black suspects. On the contrary, they strongly suggest exactly the opposite.[1]

    In 2015, a Justice Department study of the Philadelphia Police Department found that black officers were 67 percent more likely than their white colleagues to mistakenly shoot an unarmed black suspect, and Hispanic officers were 145 percent more likely to do the same. That same year, a study of the New York Police Department by criminology professor Greg Ridgeway found that black officers were 3.3 times more likely than their white peers to discharge their guns in the course of their work. So much for the notion of trigger-happy white cops.

    In any given year, a mere 0.6 percent of black men report that physical force of any kind – including mild actions like pushing and grabbing – is used against them by the police. The corresponding figure for white men is approximately 0.2 percent. Though both figures are infinitesimally small, critics of the police are quick to complain that the figure for blacks is three times higher than the figure for whites. But as National Review points out, that disparity is fully accounted for by the fact that “black men commit violent crimes at much higher rates than white men,” as evidenced by data from the annual National Crime Victimization Survey.

    Moreover, the available data indicate that a mere 0.08 percent of black men and white men alike are injured by police in any given year. This figure includes injuries sustained as a result of police actions that are legally justified, and often necessary, in order to thwart criminal behavior.

    In a 2018 working paper titled “An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force,” Harvard economist Roland Fryer, who is African American, reported that police officers in Houston were nearly 24 percent less likely to shoot black suspects than white suspects. In a separate analysis of officer shootings in three Texas cities, six Florida counties, and the city of Los Angeles, Fryer found that: (a) officers were 47 percent less likely to discharge their weapon without first being attacked if the suspect was black, than if the suspect was white; (b) black and white individuals shot by police were equally likely to have been armed at the time of the shootings; (c) white officers were no more likely to shoot unarmed blacks than unarmed whites; (d) black officers were more likely to shoot unarmed whites than unarmed blacks; and (e) black officers were more likely than white officers to shoot unarmed whites. There is no evidence of anti-black racism in any of these findings, though some of them do seem to suggest an anti-white bias.

    A 2019 study published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences shows that white officers are no more likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot black civilians. “In fact,” writes Manhattan Institute scholar Heather Mac Donald, the study found that “if there is a bias in police shootings after crime rates are taken into account, it is against white civilians.” Specifically, Mac Donald adds, the authors of the study compiled a database of 917 officer-involved fatal shootings in 2015 and found that 55 percent of the victims were white, 27 percent were black, and 19 percent were Hispanic.

    Each and every year, without exception, whites who are shot and killed by police officers in the U.S. far outnumber blacks and Hispanics who meet that same fate. In 2017, for instance, 457 whites, 223 blacks, and 179 Hispanics were killed by police officers in the line of duty. In 2018, the corresponding figures were 399 whites, 209 blacks, and 148 Hispanics. And in 2019, the totals were 370 whites, 235 blacks, and 158 Hispanics. There is not a hint of racism anywhere in these figures.

    When we compare black rates of violent crime, with the rate at which blacks are shot and killed by police officers, we find that blacks are represented among those shooting victims at rates significantly lower than we would normally expect. For example, in 2017, blacks were just 23.6% of all people shot dead by police, even though they were arrested for 37.5% of all violent crimes. The following year, blacks were 26.3% of those fatally shot by police, even as they were arrested for fully 37.4% of violent crimes.

    According to Heather Mac Donald: “The per capita rate of officers being feloniously killed is 45 times higher than the rate at which unarmed black males are killed by cops. And an officer’s chance of getting killed by a black assailant is 18.5 times higher than the chance of an unarmed black getting killed by a cop.”

    In sum, there is a veritable Everest of evidence demolishing the fake, phony, fraudulent narrative of systemic police abuse aimed at African Americans. But the one trait that the raging rioters, the fervid protesters, the sanctimonious civil-rights leaders, and the preening celebrity tweeters all have in common, is their deep and abiding commitment to their own righteous rage. They very much want – and very much need – to believe that police brutality against black Americans is widespread and systemic. And they reflexively, indignantly rebel against any suggestion to the contrary, as though the foundational dogma of their holy faith were being called into question by blasphemous heretics.
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  2. Amen Bill the Cat, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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  4. Amen seer amen'd this post.
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    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    I don't know enough about to this to make any judgment.

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    tWebber
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    It's not so much racism, it's the aggression and brutality against citizens in general. I don't know if they're being trained that way or what. They're like militarized bots now, incapable of using any basic logic or reasoning, tactically trained and equipped like they're facing an enemy in Fallujah or some third world country. I witnessed like 6 cops in the building I live taser some drunk old guy who wasn't cooperating. I mean 6 freaking cops couldn't subdue an old drunk guy? They had to taze him? That's just one example.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  7. Amen Leonhard, Ronson amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    Yeah ... but ... these stats are about use of force or deadly use of force.

    It is a subject with a lot of nuance and profiling isn't covered here. And the link to the "report" in the article is broken, as I would like to examine other figures in the source, if possible.

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    I don't know enough about to this to make any judgment.
    You can read the quote and follow the studies in the link - then you will know.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    Yeah ... but ... these stats are about use of force or deadly use of force.

    It is a subject with a lot of nuance and profiling isn't covered here. And the link to the "report" in the article is broken, as I would like to examine other figures in the source, if possible.
    Right, it is not about profiling which may happen in higher rates in high crime areas. There are a number of studies linked.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    You can read the quote and follow the studies in the link - then you will know.
    I might, but I don't trust the person. I'm not like you seer, just because someone agrees with me politically, or says something that sounds right to me, doesn't mean I automatically trust them. I have a lot of questions about that issue, which is a complicated minefield. Did he cherry-pick his results for instance? Did he rely on equivocating on definitions, to imply something a lot more general than what the data actually shows? What is his working definition of racism? I'd also have to follow the sources to verify that they actually say why he claims.

    So, no I don't know enough about this issue to comfortably say anything on it.

  12. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
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    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    There are a number of studies linked.
    Argument by weblink.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    I don't know enough about to this to make any judgment.
    That doesn't keep a lot of people from spewing forth ignorance anyway! Good on you, Leon!
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  15. Amen Leonhard, Cerebrum123, DesertBerean amen'd this post.

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