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Are Police Systematically Racist?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
    Yeah ... but ... these stats are about use of force or deadly use of force.

    It is a subject with a lot of nuance and profiling isn't covered here. And the link to the "report" in the article is broken, as I would like to examine other figures in the source, if possible.
    Thanks, I was going to mention this as well.

    Traffic stops can also be an indicator of systemic racism (which I guess is covered by your use of the term "profiling").

    ---

    Speaking of my own uninformed opinion (I haven't fully-read the article in the OP, and I've done no real research prior to writing this post), I'm pretty sure racism IS a factor in how some members of the black community get treated. I'm also sure that the fundamental distrust that community has for law enforcement can exacerbate that same treatment. It's a subject with a lot of nuance, and the relationship between the two groups can't be pigeonholed by terms like "systemic racism" OR "lack of respect for authority", etc.

    PLUS - "the police" includes black officers which aren't being racist in their treatment of their own community.

    I know the problem exists; the black community can justifiably point to a history of systemic mistreatment by law enforcement. The deaths of unarmed black men at the hands of police officers is outrageous. I also know that there are good cops who are doing their jobs justly and effectively. I don't believe systemic racism exists in the police force like it once did, but I'm almost positive that the culture of that force protects the minority of officers who make the entire force look racist.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by seanD View Post
      It is what it is. I've seen it with my own eyes.
      That's what we call anecdotal.

      The problem is that this issue keeps being clouded as a racial issue when that's not the main problem. But as long as the left keeps making it a racial issue, the real problem is just going to be obfuscated and never solved.
      The whole "militarization" thing started with the police being horribly outgunned in the North Hollywood Shootout. No doubt, there are abuses of this power, but it was in response to a legitimate need. Every time my son-in-law does a raid on a crackhouse, they (the bad guys) have considerably more firepower than the average citizen would ever guess.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        That doesn't keep a lot of people from spewing forth ignorance anyway! Good on you, Leon!
        When it comes to these things, I know the issues are deep and complex. And since I don't have a bone in the fight, I'd rather just stay out on it and focus on the issues I do feel I understand at least a tiny bit, such as police brutality.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          Well I lived in a high crime urban area in the 80s, look up Father Panik Village sometime. And yes the cops were more aggressive there - but they kind of had to be.
          The problem is that the increased aggressiveness of police forces does not correlate with the data. Data suggests that crime has been declining in the US, so there really is no explanation why police forces have been militarized this way.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
            ... I don't believe systemic racism exists in the police force like it once did....
            And, here, I think, is a major point --- it's wrong just to say "the police force" as if all police departments were the same. In some departments, there most certainly IS systemic racism. In others, there have been major overhauls, and while you may have individual officers with a racist bent, others will clearly do their best to offset even the appearance of racism.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              That's what we call anecdotal.



              The whole "militarization" thing started with the police being horribly outgunned in the North Hollywood Shootout. No doubt, there are abuses of this power, but it was in response to a legitimate need. Every time my son-in-law does a raid on a crackhouse, they (the bad guys) have considerably more firepower than the average citizen would ever guess.
              So you're saying officers can't distinguish a raid on a crack house from the rest of society? Then that proves what I said before. They're like militarized bots, incapable of using logic and reason, I guess because they're trained that way.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by seanD View Post
                So you're saying officers can't distinguish a raid on a crack house from the rest of society?
                Well, if you got that out of what I said, maybe you've been frequenting the crack house! KIDDING

                They "gear up" way differently for raids than they do for patrol.

                Then that proves what I said before.
                No, it really doesn't.

                They're like militarized bots, incapable of using logic and reason, I guess because they're trained that way.
                wow
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                  When it comes to these things, I know the issues are deep and complex. And since I don't have a bone in the fight, I'd rather just stay out on it and focus on the issues I do feel I understand at least a tiny bit, such as police brutality.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Well, if you got that out of what I said, maybe you've been frequenting the crack house! KIDDING

                    They "gear up" way differently for raids than they do for patrol.



                    No, it really doesn't.



                    wow
                    You said the aggression and tactical equipment is necessary when raiding a crackhouse. I agree. But then why do they carry that aggression and brutality in different situations that don't require it. That was my point. And I think you know that was my point.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post
                      The problem is that the increased aggressiveness of police forces does not correlate with the data. Data suggests that crime has been declining in the US, so there really is no explanation why police forces have been militarized this way.
                      Sheesh Sean, maybe the drop in crime from the high point in the 70s has to do with more aggressive policing. Look how Giuliani and Bloomberg turned NYC around. That I saw first hand.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post
                        You said the aggression and tactical equipment is necessary when raiding a crackhouse.
                        Not ONLY then, but certainly not in routine patrol.

                        I agree. But then why do they carry that aggression and brutality in different situations that don't require it.
                        And THERE is that gigantic big brush.

                        That was my point. And I think you know that was my point.
                        To be perfectly hones, a lot of times it seems you're a sane rational fella, but when this kind of topic comes up, you really seem unhinged.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Sheesh Sean, maybe the drop in crime from the high point in the 70s has to do with more aggressive policing. Look how Giuliani and Bloomberg turned NYC around. That I saw first hand.
                          Possibly, but that would require some fairly extensive amount of research to verify as fact. But even if it is true, the point I was making to CP is why they can't distinguish a highly dangerous situation from a less dangerous one, or highly dangerous suspects against ordinary citizens. Why do cops have to fire projectiles at folks innocently standing on the porch of their homes as opposed to actual looters who pose a threat? They can't distinguish the difference? Or they're trained not to?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            That's what we call anecdotal.



                            The whole "militarization" thing started with the police being horribly outgunned in the North Hollywood Shootout. No doubt, there are abuses of this power, but it was in response to a legitimate need. Every time my son-in-law does a raid on a crackhouse, they (the bad guys) have considerably more firepower than the average citizen would ever guess.
                            Another reason was the military offering to give (or sell dirt cheap) local police departments armored vehicles. You had cases of police departments in small towns suddenly equipped with what are effectively small tanks and when you have something like that there is a strong urge to find a "need" to use it.

                            Another change has been in the officers themselves. Back in the 80s and 90s you would be hard pressed to spot a police officer when they were out of uniform. They pretty much looked like everyone else. Now, all you have to do is look for the guys (and this is about male police officers) that look like they're a linebacker for an NFL team.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Not ONLY then, but certainly not in routine patrol.



                              And THERE is that gigantic big brush.



                              To be perfectly hones, a lot of times it seems you're a sane rational fella, but when this kind of topic comes up, you really seem unhinged.
                              I'm a constitutonalist, bro. When I see threats, or potential threats against that, yeah, I have a tendency to lose it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by seanD View Post
                                I'm a constitutonalist, bro. When I see threats, or potential threats against that, yeah, I have a tendency to lose it.
                                Yeah, cause "losing it" is always so very helpful, Bro.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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