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Why don't police issue triage after shooting someone?

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  • Why don't police issue triage after shooting someone?

    I might just be stupid, but I've seen plenty of videos where an officers shoots someone, incapacitating them. Take Phillip Castillo, after being shot you hear him moaning in agony, even speaking intelligibly. Yet the police officers gets busy radioing in things, and walking away from the scene. It was also the same of murderer cop who shot a man in his own apartment, she quickly starts radioing it in and audibly paces but doesn't offer triage.

    If a regular person gets shot, the first action of paramedics isn't to start pacing and talking rapidly into cellphones. It's to stop the bleeding as best they can. Yet police officers don't do that.

    Is there a 'let em bleed out' policy? Or just a culture of doing that? I don't get it.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
    I might just be stupid, but I've seen plenty of videos where an officers shoots someone, incapacitating them. Take Phillip Castillo, after being shot you hear him moaning in agony, even speaking intelligibly. Yet the police officers gets busy radioing in things, and walking away from the scene. It was also the same of murderer cop who shot a man in his own apartment, she quickly starts radioing it in and audibly paces but doesn't offer triage.

    If a regular person gets shot, the first action of paramedics isn't to start pacing and talking rapidly into cellphones. It's to stop the bleeding as best they can. Yet police officers don't do that.

    Is there a 'let em bleed out' policy? Or just a culture of doing that? I don't get it.
    I don't know if that is indicative... Perhaps a cop can chime in.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      I don't know if that is indicative... Perhaps a cop can chime in.
      I know there's procedures for helping civilians after a mass shooting incident. There's also reports of police officers issuing triage to people who have been shot by a suspect. And all of that is good and commendable. What I don't get are the specific videos I've seen of an officer gunning down someone, but then instead of immediately applying triage then instead start radioing it in... walking away for seemingly a long time, meanwhile the victim they've shot is bleeding out.

      I might just be stupid and horribly naive in asking this question but I seriously don't get it.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
        I might just be stupid, but I've seen plenty of videos where an officers shoots someone, incapacitating them. Take Phillip Castillo, after being shot you hear him moaning in agony, even speaking intelligibly. Yet the police officers gets busy radioing in things, and walking away from the scene. It was also the same of murderer cop who shot a man in his own apartment, she quickly starts radioing it in and audibly paces but doesn't offer triage.

        If a regular person gets shot, the first action of paramedics isn't to start pacing and talking rapidly into cellphones. It's to stop the bleeding as best they can. Yet police officers don't do that.

        Is there a 'let em bleed out' policy? Or just a culture of doing that? I don't get it.
        All I can say is that I've seen officers immediately tend to the shooting victim before. Not every single time, of course, but it happens.

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        • #5
          I think you're probably more likely to see videos where the officer doesn't help the person than videos where he does since the former is more provocative. Also, videos don't always tell the whole story.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            I think you're probably more likely to see videos where the officer doesn't help the person than videos where he does since the former is more provocative. Also, videos don't always tell the whole story.
            That’s a good point, if the officer helps out and the person doesn’t die on them it wouldn’t be a tragedy. I didn’t account for that selection bias.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
              I might just be stupid, but I've seen plenty of videos where an officers shoots someone, incapacitating them. Take Phillip Castillo, after being shot you hear him moaning in agony, even speaking intelligibly. Yet the police officers gets busy radioing in things, and walking away from the scene. It was also the same of murderer cop who shot a man in his own apartment, she quickly starts radioing it in and audibly paces but doesn't offer triage.

              If a regular person gets shot, the first action of paramedics isn't to start pacing and talking rapidly into cellphones. It's to stop the bleeding as best they can. Yet police officers don't do that.

              Is there a 'let em bleed out' policy? Or just a culture of doing that? I don't get it.
              Unfortunately I don't believe the police have any legal obligation to aid someone they've wounded. I was just going to say that I think most cops are good people and so would help, but then I realized, i'm not really so sure about that. It certainly seems as though there a lot of bad apples on the force out there.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                I was just going to say that I think most cops are good people and so would help, but then I realized, i'm not really so sure about that. It certainly seems as though there a lot of bad apples on the force out there.
                Unfortunately cultures of misbehavior in these organisations tend to snowball. A few bad apples can create a strong bias toward attracting and recruiting certain negative personality types, and good people around them may leave their jobs due to dissatisfaction with their colleagues.

                It becomes really important to prevent this and have strong systems in place from the top down for ensuring the right people are doing the job and are trained to do the right thing. Unfortunately the sheer number of different police forces across the US and the lack of a centralized organisational framework, makes ensuring consistency in standards across all the different police agencies pretty much impossible.
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                • #9
                  I'd think that the specific details of the shooting would play a big part in the officer's decision to render medical aid.

                  Someone suspected of multiple murders / rapes might get attention, to ensure that the person stands trial; a person who displayed contempt for the officers and drew a weapon might not. Someone who's suspected of trying to commit suicide-by-cop might cause officers to shoot-to-disable, and then get immediate medical attention.

                  And hey, officers have moods, too. Whether a suspect is cared for might be impacted by what the cops are feeling like on that day.

                  While I don't know how much liability an officer faces for caring incorrectly for a wounded suspect, I'll bet he/she tries to decide whether it's best for the victim to simply wait for the ambulance...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                    All I can say is that I've seen officers immediately tend to the shooting victim before. Not every single time, of course, but it happens.
                    Yeah, it depends on the situation, and SO MANY factors.

                    Immediately, radio for an ambulance (and often a supervisor, if one is not present)
                    Do NOT assume he acted alone, so scan the area for a possible second or third assailant or subject
                    Look to see if there were any innocent bystanders shot
                    If the victim has mutiple GSWs to center mass, there is most likely very little the officer can do
                    secure the scene (as it is now a potential crime scene)

                    And, this one maybe not so obvious.... PURPOSELY walk around a bit, controlling your breathing, allowing your adrenaline to dissipate - so you don't do something stupid.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      I think you're probably more likely to see videos where the officer doesn't help the person than videos where he does since the former is more provocative. Also, videos don't always tell the whole story.
                      An episode of Blue Bloods (taken from real life incident) shows exactly that. A video went viral, showing police abuse of a person, and riots broke out as a result.
                      After quite a struggle, the Department finally got the folks who leaked the video to show the ENTIRE video, and it became evident the officer was actually quite restrained, given the circumstances.

                      This is not all that unusual.

                      And this is EXACTLY why I had been trying my darndest to imagine ANY context that might IN ANY WAY justify the Minneapolis incident. Not in my WILDEST imagination.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Unfortunately I don't believe the police have any legal obligation to aid someone they've wounded.
                        This is actually a hotly debated issue within police circles, Jim.
                        Here's an interesting article on it -- POLICE SUED FOR FAILING TO AID GUNSHOT VICTIM


                        I was just going to say that I think most cops are good people and so would help, but then I realized, i'm not really so sure about that.
                        It's more complicated than that. In this day and age, imagine an officer-involved shooting where the officer shot the victim, and he's laying bleeding. A crowd forms, cameras come out, and the officer kneels next to the body to attempt to provide aid. Is the crowd's perception that he's HELPING -- or is he trying to make sure the victim doesn't live through the ordeal.
                        OR, as the crowed becomes hostile, particularly in a white cop on black subject shooting, can the officer AFFORD to turn his back on the crowd to aid the victim?
                        It's WAY more complicated than most people would think.

                        It certainly seems as though there a lot of bad apples on the force out there.
                        Note Leon's "selection bias" comment.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          An episode of Blue Bloods (taken from real life incident) shows exactly that. A video went viral, showing police abuse of a person, and riots broke out as a result.
                          After quite a struggle, the Department finally got the folks who leaked the video to show the ENTIRE video, and it became evident the officer was actually quite restrained, given the circumstances.

                          This is not all that unusual.

                          And this is EXACTLY why I had been trying my darndest to imagine ANY context that might IN ANY WAY justify the Minneapolis incident. Not in my WILDEST imagination.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            An episode of Blue Bloods (taken from real life incident) shows exactly that. A video went viral, showing police abuse of a person, and riots broke out as a result.
                            After quite a struggle, the Department finally got the folks who leaked the video to show the ENTIRE video, and it became evident the officer was actually quite restrained, given the circumstances.

                            This is not all that unusual.

                            And this is EXACTLY why I had been trying my darndest to imagine ANY context that might IN ANY WAY justify the Minneapolis incident. Not in my WILDEST imagination.
                            This kind of "rhetorical caution" (for lack of a better term) is similar to the way I govern myself in hot topics about current events. It's VERY easy (and apparently a little too-tempting) to focus too closely on details, to the exclusion of context which puts those details in a completely different light.

                            When I first saw the video of George Floyd, I wanted to know what had happened prior to the encounter. Even now that some earlier footage has appeared, it feels to me like I don't have the whole story; I don't know why the "supporting" officers behaved the way they did. Of course, I have to be careful in how I express these things, because skepticism can be ideologically-based, and I'm not interested in sheltering police who (I've concluded after a week's worth of information gathering) commit murder.

                            The same things apply to nearly every activist video on Youtube. Unless you know what happened before/after the event being displayed, you're missing information which could completely change your conclusions about what the video shows.

                            So yeah, I'm instantly suspicious of hyperbolic videos/news. Anything geared towards evoking emotion from the viewer is a potential tool for manipulation.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                              This kind of "rhetorical caution" (for lack of a better term) is similar to the way I govern myself in hot topics about current events. It's VERY easy (and apparently a little too-tempting) to focus too closely on details, to the exclusion of context which puts those details in a completely different light.

                              When I first saw the video of George Floyd, I wanted to know what had happened prior to the encounter. Even now that some earlier footage has appeared, it feels to me like I don't have the whole story; I don't know why the "supporting" officers behaved the way they did. Of course, I have to be careful in how I express these things, because skepticism can be ideologically-based, and I'm not interested in sheltering police who (I've concluded after a week's worth of information gathering) commit murder.

                              The same things apply to nearly every activist video on Youtube. Unless you know what happened before/after the event being displayed, you're missing information which could completely change your conclusions about what the video shows.

                              So yeah, I'm instantly suspicious of hyperbolic videos/news. Anything geared towards evoking emotion from the viewer is a potential tool for manipulation.
                              That's it --- and you have to be very careful expressing desire to know ALL THE FACTS in the case, because the left fringe nutters here will jump all over you, accusing you of DEFENDING the killing, or TRYING TO BLAME the victim.
                              You can only seek out ALL FACTS if they support the liberal narrative - GOD FORBID you should find something that doesn't fit the narrative, and post it, EVEN WITH disclaimers.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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