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Thread: The reality of black and white disparities in the US

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    The reality of black and white disparities in the US

    So many here seem intent on being behind ideas that try to play down or minimize the fundamental disparities the exist between a typical white family vs a typical black family. As if racism and poverty and police interactions and justice differentials are all 'exaggeraged' by the 'liberal' media. But this is not a 'conservative' vs 'liberal' issue, this is a reality.

    CNN put up a set of numbers today that help put this into perspective. And no, I'm not going to ask those that play this down as 'liberal propaganda' to actually read a CNN article. I'm just going to put up the numbers right here in front for all to see.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/polit...ity/index.html

    These numbers show part of what I mean by 'cultural racism' and 'the legacy of slavery'. What it shows is that changes in the law itself simply are not enough. Yes, there have been efforts to make a difference, but they simply have not been enough. And we still have a massive disparity in the US, and efforts to cast blame predominantly on the black community itself are in fact evidence that continued 'cultural racism' and 'legacy of slavery'. What it reveals is why these protests are happening, and why they are so intense, and why any solution will take a lot of effort and time by ALL to make these disparities a thing of the past.

    NET worth: White family: $171,000, Black family: $17.600

    Income: White family: $71,000, Black family: $41,000

    Unemployment(pre covid): White: 3.1%, Black 5.8% (post covid) White 14.2%, Black 16.7%

    Poverty: White: 8.1%, Black: 20.8%

    No Health care: White: 5.4%, Black: 9.7%

    This last one is not clearly 'caused' by the above factors (cultural racism/legacy of slavery) except perhaps as it relates to healthcare or type of Job (lower income/wealth -> more risky jobs or less capacity not to work):

    COVID deaths: White 13%, Black 23%

    These numbers do not address the well known, well researched disparities in arrest and punishment - even accounting for higher crime environments. Nor do they show the well known, well researched disparities in hunger, education, or single parent families.

    These are just some of the realities that are a consequence of centuries of slavery followed by another century of oppression followed by 60 years of half-hearted efforts on the heals of the civil rights movement and amendment to correct half a millenia of oppression.

    The time has come to do what is necessary to change this picture. It won't be easy, It will not be quick, and it won't be cheap. But it will never happen if those of us with the wealth and with the privilege refuse to recognize the problem and put forth real and sacrificial effort to change it.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-03-2020 at 07:52 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  2. Amen Charles amen'd this post.
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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    So many here seem intent on being behind ideas that try to play down or minimize the fundamental disparities the exist between a typical white family vs a typical black family. As if racism and poverty and police interactions and justice differentials are all 'exaggeraged' by the 'liberal' media. But this is not a 'conservative' vs 'liberal' issue, this is a reality.

    CNN put up a set of numbers today that help put this into perspective. And no, I'm not going to ask those that play this down as 'liberal propaganda' to actually read a CNN article. I'm just going to put up the numbers right here in front for all to see.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/polit...ity/index.html

    These numbers show part of what I mean by 'cultural racism' and 'the legacy of slavery'. What it shows is that changes in the law itself simply are not enough. Yes, there have been efforts to make a difference, but they simply have not been enough. And we still have a massive disparity in the US, and efforts to cast blame predominantly on the black community itself are in fact evidence that continued 'cultural racism' and 'legacy of slavery'. What it reveals is why these protests are happening, and why they are so intense, and why any solution will take a lot of effort and time by ALL to make these disparities a thing of the past.

    NET worth: White family: $171,000, Black family: $17.600

    Income: White family: $71,000, Black family: $41,000

    Unemployment(pre covid): White: 3.1%, Black 5.8% (post covid) White 14.2%, Black 16.7%

    Poverty: White: 8.1%, Black: 20.8%

    No Health care: White: 5.4%, Black: 9.7%

    This last one is not clearly 'caused' by the above factors (cultural racism/legacy of slavery) except perhaps as it relates to healthcare or type of Job (lower income/wealth -> more risky jobs or less capacity not to work):

    COVID deaths: White 13%, Black 23%

    These numbers do not address the well known, well researched disparities in arrest and punishment - even accounting for higher crime environments. Nor do they show the well known, well researched disparities in hunger, education, or single parent families.

    These are just some of the realities that are a consequence of centuries of slavery followed by another century of oppression followed by 60 years of half-hearted efforts on the heals of the civil rights movement and amendment to correct half a millenia of oppression.

    The time has come to do what is necessary to change this picture. It won't be easy, It will not be quick, and it won't be cheap. But it will never happen if those of us with the wealth and with the privilege refuse to recognize the problem and put forth real and sacrificial effort to change it.
    Not sure what your point is. Asian Americans generally do better financially better than whites: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016...ic-well-being/

    So it that racism? And I'm not sure what the point is about COVID deaths. Males have a much higher rated of death due to COVID than females, does that mean that COVID is sexist? And racism does not tell us why 70% of inner city black males abandon their families when the numbers were less than 20% in the 30s, 40s, 50s when things were much worse for blacks. And what about the trillions of dollars we have sent into these communities through welfare programs? Why hasn't that helped?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    Even if you "changed this picture" overnight, we would still have the George Floyd event happening. Because it was one cop in one city caught being bad and exploited by the media. That's never going to change. There will always be bad people doing bad things.

    So if a solution to this disparity is meant to address the riot and its cause, it won't.

  5. Amen seer, Cow Poke amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    Even if you "changed this picture" overnight, we would still have the George Floyd event happening. Because it was one cop in one city caught being bad and exploited by the media. That's never going to change. There will always be bad people doing bad things.

    So if a solution to this disparity is meant to address the riot and its cause, it won't.
    The issue is not that one random bad cop did this.

    The event could not produce the response without the reality these numbers expose. Instead of representing a deep seated disparity, it would be a one off, a random bad cop that needs to be locked away.

    The problem is so many 'people of color' identify so directly with what happened because of their own experience or someone they know. They know this could be them. It is so close to them there is real fear this could be them. And for many, this fear that racism could kill them comes at a very early age.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-03-2020 at 09:05 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Not sure what your point is. Asian Americans generally do better financially better than whites: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016...ic-well-being/

    So it that racism? And I'm not sure what the point is about COVID deaths. Males have a much higher rated of death due to COVID than females, does that mean that COVID is sexist? And racism does not tell us why 70% of inner city black males abandon their families when the numbers were less than 20% in the 30s, 40s, 50s when things were much worse for blacks. And what about the trillions of dollars we have sent into these communities through welfare programs? Why hasn't that helped?
    Seer, "I dont see what your point is" could not be a more clear indication of the problem. I never cease to be amazed by the responses to these issues here. And that answer could not be a more clear indication of just exactly why those trillions of dollars you mention have not been enough.

    As for Asians. The situation there is not the same at all. Asians are immigrants, like the Irish, like the Italians. They did not have nearly every aspect of who they were and who they are first torn from them and then broken down through 400 years of slavery, and then they were not subjected to the sorts of lynchings and systemic racism of the following 100 years as they tried to make a place for themselves among the people that enslaved them, and they do not start in the same cultural and physical poverty that the majority of black people do. Their cultural legacy in this country is not a half a millenia of slavery and racism. And that makes a huge difference in where they start. There is no comparison at all really, except to make clear why it is not the same.

    You need to recognize that who WE are has a very great deal to do with who came before us, the family we were born into, the environment we grew up in, cultural mountain we stand upon. We are born into a place in this world - as a group - that is far above where the average black person is in this country. And the reality is, that is true (statistically) of Asians as well.

    (The link you gave is very good BTW)
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-03-2020 at 09:30 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  8. Amen Charles amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Seer, "I dont see what your point is" could not be a more clear indication of the problem. I never cease to be amazed by the responses to these issues here. And that answer could not be a more clear indication of just exactly why those trillions of dollars you mention have not been enough.

    As for Asians. The situation there is not the same at all. Asians are immigrants, like the Irish, like the Italians. They did not have nearly every aspect of who they were and who they are first broken down with 400 years of slavery, and then they were not subjected to the sorts of lynchings and systemic racism of the following 100 years as they tried to make a place for themselves among the people that enslaved them, and they do not start in the same cultural and physical poverty that the majority of black people do. There is no comparison at all really, except to make clear why it is not the same.
    Jim how do you fix 70% of inner city black males abandoning their families? We have poured trillion of dollars into the inner cities - has it helped? What are your solutions Jim? Give us three.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim how do you fix 70% of inner city black males abandoning their families? We have poured trillion of dollars into the inner cities - has it helped? What are your solutions Jim? Give us three.
    (NOTE to MaxVel - trying to find ways of saying these things that is not accusatory)

    Without accusing you personally - that seems to me to be another 'it's all their fault' excuse. Is that your intent when you point to that?

    As for solving it - I doubt anyone knows what will work for sure. But not trying at all guarantees it won't get solved.

    That 70% number (assuming it is accurate) comes from a long history of broken families and poverty that was part of slavery and the oppression that followed. To change it ways of thinking must change, ways of living must change, poverty must be reduced, education level must be raised, gang influence must be reduced or eliminated to name a few.

    How to do that is huge! You an I both know that such endemic problems, once part of a culture, once a part of a person's life, are very hard to fix. Even when a person turns to Christ, it is a long road. It will take great minds, a lot of money, and massive amounts of cooperation between black and white communities to fix it.

    But we get nowhere if we first don't accept the fact the problem exists and that it will take all of us working together to solve it. Right now on this website, I'm just trying to get past the majority of the people recognizing it is not 'all their fault' and that all of us must care enough to work together to solve it if the problem has any hope of being solved.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-03-2020 at 09:57 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim how do you fix 70% of inner city black males abandoning their families?
    Any source to show this is the case and to put it into context?

    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    We have poured trillion of dollars into the inner cities - has it helped?
    Do you know what the situation would have been with no help? And could part of the problem be the attitude towards them?

    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    What are your solutions Jim? Give us three.
    I think you might want to read the op again: "The time has come to do what is necessary to change this picture. It won't be easy, It will not be quick, and it won't be cheap. But it will never happen if those of us with the wealth and with the privilege refuse to recognize the problem and put forth real and sacrificial effort to change it."
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    The question is, at what point do blacks stop blaming while people for their problems? What's the end game? The days of a black person being unable to succeed simply because he's black are in the distant past, so where do we go from here?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Seriously? That seems to me to be another 'it's all their fault' excuse. Is that your intent?

    As for solving it - I doubt anyone knows what will work for sure. But not trying at all guarantees it won't get solved.

    That 70% number comes from a long history of broken families and poverty that was part of slavery and the oppression that followed. To change it ways of thinking must change, ways of living must change, poverty must be reduced, education level must be raised, gang influence must be reduced or eliminated to name a few.

    How to do that is huge! You an I both know that such endemic problems, once part of a culture, once a part of a person's life, are very hard to fix. Even when a person turns to Christ, it is a long road. It will take great minds, a lot of money, and massive amounts of cooperation between black and white communities to fix it.

    But we get nowhere if we first don't accept the fact the problem exists and that it will take all of us working together to solve it. Right now on this website, I'm just trying to get past the majority of the people recognizing it is not 'all their fault' and that all of us must care enough to work together to solve it if the problem has any hope of being solved.
    I'm sorry Jim, but some of it is their fault. Not all of it, but they have responsibility. Racism does not force a black man to abandon his family. And most of these poor inner cities are run by liberals and have been for decades. Are you seriously suggesting that they haven't tried to fix the problems? Since I have been a kid in the sixties all we have talked about is race, it has been focused on - forever. And seeing that trillions of tax dollars that we poured into the inner cities did little or no good most of us don't want to send good money after bad.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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