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Floyd Tested Positive for Covid

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
    Which is why I said that it doesn't make much difference. The covid could have made him weaker, perhaps made it more difficult to breathe, and will almost certainly be used in court by Chauven's attorney.
    It won't be hard for the defense to just ask what the conclusion of the report was. The conclusion wasn't that covid was a major contributer, nor the meth. It would be a long reach to get an exoneration out of this thing. Here's the thing, even if he was healthy, would he have survived. I honestly doubt that, but it still doesn't matter. He told them explicitly he couldn't breathe, then he went limp, but they continued.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
      It won't be hard for the defense to just ask what the conclusion of the report was. The conclusion wasn't that covid was a major contributer, nor the meth. It would be a long reach to get an exoneration out of this thing. Here's the thing, even if he was healthy, would he have survived. I honestly doubt that, but it still doesn't matter. He told them explicitly he couldn't breathe, then he went limp, but they continued.
      Try as I may, I can't see a solid defense for any of this action. I can't even find a FLIMSY defense. I do not envy the attorney(s) who are given the task of defending this case.

      I think that's one of the reasons I'm amazed that the leftist nutters get so outraged when you want to look at ALL the facts. They're (the facts) going to come out in court, if it ever gets there, and both sides will be under oath and subject to cross-examination. Why so afraid of the TRUTH? (not saying you are)
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Try as I may, I can't see a solid defense for any of this action. I can't even find a FLIMSY defense. I do not envy the attorney(s) who are given the task of defending this case.

        I think that's one of the reasons I'm amazed that the leftist nutters get so outraged when you want to look at ALL the facts. They're (the facts) going to come out in court, if it ever gets there, and both sides will be under oath and subject to cross-examination. Why so afraid of the TRUTH? (not saying you are)
        But you see now the issue that "we darn liberals" have with "facts" like these? See how *some* posters have been using the facts?
        Last edited by Leonhard; 06-04-2020, 05:05 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
          But you see now the issue that "we darn liberals" have with "facts" like these? See how *some* posters have been using the facts?
          And [ ducking ] I think it goes back to the "liberal narrative". "We ONLY want facts that support our position".

          I want facts that CHALLENGE my position. Which is why (at the risk of being accused of placating you ) I enjoy your pushback. You make me think. You make me defend my position.

          AND, unlike a particular serial repeater of wildly inaccurate information falsely alleges out of spite or extreme ignorance, I DO change my position when I find I was wrong, or can't support my position.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #35
            Last time I checked, taking drugs was not worthy of the death penalty. Didn't he also have some health problems? That hold sounds ridiculously dangerous. You don't want pressure on the neck like that for long at all.
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Should anybody think I'm exaggerating even a teeny bit....

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]45294[/ATTACH]
              To say he was no angel is being pretty generous IMO. He was no saint for sure. Several conservative Black spokespeople have pretty thoroughly denounced him as such and say he should absolutely not be put on a pedestal... while simultaneously agreeing with everyone that he should not have been murdered and that the officers should be held fully accountable. I think I agree with them completely.
              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                To say he was no angel is being pretty generous IMO. He was no saint for sure. Several conservative Black spokespeople have pretty thoroughly denounced him as such and say he should absolutely not be put on a pedestal... while simultaneously agreeing with everyone that he should not have been murdered and that the officers should be held fully accountable. I think I agree with them completely.
                EGGzackly -- but that's the kind of talk that drives our local fringe extremist liberals nuts --- you're DEFENDING THE MURDERER... You're BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  The only think I can think of on that was that Chauvin was "that kind of guy" where you just can't tell him what to do. Lane seemed awfully reserved in his attempts.
                  That was insightful.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    EGGzackly -- but that's the kind of talk that drives our local fringe extremist liberals nuts --- you're DEFENDING THE MURDERER... You're BLAMING THE VICTIM!!!
                    The real problem is the pattern. Just like with arbery, you and others seek out what may have been wrong with the victim and focus on that when given the circumstances it just doesn't matter.

                    The sad truth is, in both cases it matters because they were black. They are dead. They were killed unjustly, without cause or justifiable provocation. In such cases, whatever their weak moments had been, we typically do not turn our focus on them, out of respect for what they suffered, out of disdain for what was done to them.

                    At least, that is what is normal if the victim is white.
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-06-2020, 09:02 AM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      The real problem is the pattern. Just like with arbery, you and others seek out what may have been wrong with the victim and focus on that when given the circumstances it just doesn't matter.

                      The sad truth is, in both cases it matters because they were black. They are dead. They were killed unjustly, without cause or justifiable provocation.
                      But that's what you assert - we don't need to look at the facts, because we already 'know' that there cannot have been any cause or justification. That's a clear logical fallacy, begging the question. You expect other people to follow you in fallacious thinking, and then you run them down as morally at fault when they want to know all the facts before coming to a conclusion. That's no way to solve racism - by trying to shut up and slander people who just want to be clear on exactly what happened. You're telling people that they have no right to think or question things, and if they do, they are racist. In fact you are creating an atmosphere of 'racism' and a stream of racist incidents when at least some of them are not necessarily racist at all - still wrong, and evil, and bad, but not racist.

                      Also, you assert and assume that 'the victim' (that is also an assumption that can only be supported by looking at the facts) is entirely innocent and not culpable in any way and bringing up any facts that might call that innocence into question at all is a moral crime.

                      You are always trying to make a complex situation into a simple open and shut case, where one side is completely at fault, and the other is completely innocent. Real life is seldom that simple, and we can only determine that if we look at all the facts. Which you are determined not to do, since you 'already know' who is right, and who is wrong, just by the colour of their skin. THAT is racist.


                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd
                      In such cases, whatever their weak moments had been, we typically do not turn our focus on them, out of respect for what they suffered, out of disdain for what was done to them.

                      At least, that is what is normal if the victim is white.

                      Whatever race, ethnicity or whatever, we should ALWAYS look at ALL the facts of the case before coming to a judgment as to how the incident came about, and who is responsible. If new facts come to light, we should be ready to revise our judgment, if need be, in the light of them. We are looking for the truth, no matter how uncomfortable for us it may be, right?
                      ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                        Not that it makes any difference. He also had meth in his system.



                        https://www.npr.org/2020/06/04/86927...or-coronavirus
                        Not relevant to facts of the case for murder.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                          But that's what you assert - we don't need to look at the facts, because we already 'know' that there cannot have been any cause or justification. That's a clear logical fallacy, begging the question. You expect other people to follow you in fallacious thinking, and then you run them down as morally at fault when they want to know all the facts before coming to a conclusion. That's no way to solve racism - by trying to shut up and slander people who just want to be clear on exactly what happened. You're telling people that they have no right to think or question things, and if they do, they are racist. In fact you are creating an atmosphere of 'racism' and a stream of racist incidents when at least some of them are not necessarily racist at all - still wrong, and evil, and bad, but not racist.

                          Also, you assert and assume that 'the victim' (that is also an assumption that can only be supported by looking at the facts) is entirely innocent and not culpable in any way and bringing up any facts that might call that innocence into question at all is a moral crime.

                          You are always trying to make a complex situation into a simple open and shut case, where one side is completely at fault, and the other is completely innocent. Real life is seldom that simple, and we can only determine that if we look at all the facts. Which you are determined not to do, since you 'already know' who is right, and who is wrong, just by the colour of their skin. THAT is racist.





                          Whatever race, ethnicity or whatever, we should ALWAYS look at ALL the facts of the case before coming to a judgment as to how the incident came about, and who is responsible. If new facts come to light, we should be ready to revise our judgment, if need be, in the light of them. We are looking for the truth, no matter how uncomfortable for us it may be, right?
                          Sorry max, the pattern in these two cases is to focus on what was wrong with the victim. It has nothing to do with 'the facts'. In Floyd's case there is nothing that could possibly be relevant. We have tapes showing that whatever was in his system, he did nothing significant or violent, and no one would survive being unable to breath for 8 minutes regardless their health. In Arbery's case, IF he had stolen something it might matter, but he didn't. The continuous focus on the victim rather than those committing the crimes tells the real story here. Where are the threads on the 18 past grievences against Floyd's killer? The equal amount of focus and disgust at his aggressive use of an unsanctioned restraining move. Where are the endless speculations about the motives of those chasing down Arbery or post after post expressing disgust at their excess as they chased him, even hit him with their truck.

                          No max, this is all about making the case these black victims deserve less of our compassion than it appears they should.
                          Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-06-2020, 10:00 AM.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            Not relevant to facts of the case for murder.
                            I'm not sure I agree; meth can obviously make some people act recklessly.

                            Of course, while I haven't seen all of it, the video footage I have seen shows Floyd as docile. There may be testimony or additional footage which shows otherwise, but right now, the meth evidence doesn't seem very persuasive (as a potential defense for the police).

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                              I'm not sure I agree; meth can obviously make some people act recklessly.

                              Of course, while I haven't seen all of it, the video footage I have seen shows Floyd as docile. There may be testimony or additional footage which shows otherwise, but right now, the meth evidence doesn't seem very persuasive (as a potential defense for the police).
                              Even if it played into the initial restraint, after he was cuffed and subdued, no need. But it's basically irrelavent per the video itself.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                Even if it played into the initial restraint, after he was cuffed and subdued, no need. But it's basically irrelavent per the video itself.
                                There's a video clip I've seen a few times over the last two days of someone talking about Floyd's death. In it, this person says the police let Floyd out (of the car? Van?), which is when he attacked them. Presumably, he still would have been cuffed, so I agree that he could easily have been brought under control without killing him.

                                But if the attack happened, then meth becomes more relevant. Not enough to justify him getting killed, but enough so that dismissing that evidence would be unjust.

                                Comment

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