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Floyd Tested Positive for Covid

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The things is, if Floyd hadn't died then nobody would think twice about the method the officer used to restrain him. So I think whether or not a healthy person would have survived that same treatment is relevant. Not to say that the officer's actions were justified, but it makes the difference between a department reprimand and a murder indictment.
    The eggshell rule disagrees


    This rule holds that a tortfeasor is liable for all consequences resulting from their tortious (usually negligent) activities leading to an injury to another person, even if the victim suffers an unusually high level of damage (e.g. due to a pre-existing vulnerability or medical condition).

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
      Sure, no argument from me.

      In my opinion, there's almost always blame to be apportioned to both sides of an unjustified police shooting. The victim almost always did something to either provoke the officer, or somehow contributed to an escalation of tensions which led to the shooting.

      And of course, the people who support the officer (or the police in general) see criticism of the officer as unfair, and react to it accordingly (even if it's fair). The people who support the victim (or victims of officer shootings in general) see praise-of / support-for the officer as an attempt to excuse that officer from the shooting, and react accordingly.

      In all cases, the people react to things they think the other person is saying - rather than what was actually said.

      This is why narratives like this exist. They're attempts to head off excusing the officer/victim from responsibility for the shooting. Yes, if the shooting is unjustified by definition, then the officer bears the responsibility for it, by definition. Nonetheless, victims can contribute to the situation in ways which result in them being shot.

      I don't know that Floyd did that; I'm merely speaking in the abstract. Narratives like this ("innocent victim", "officer performing a very difficult job", etc) are a product of what one side thinks the other will say.

      ps. thanks for answering my previous question
      Well said (highlight). It's often difficult to get past tribalism and get to the truth of a matter like this. I had mentioned elsewhere that Officer Lane attempted to rectify the situation with Floyd but was ignored. I had leftists go ballistic on me that I was defending "the enemy" by saying that - saying Lane was guilty of murder because he didn't stop the murder (despite the fact that murder is only identifiable after the fact). They just immediately saw red and couldn't think straight. Scary sometimes.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        The things is, if Floyd hadn't died then nobody would think twice about the method the officer used to restrain him.
        The thing is, if nobody was filming, nobody would think twice about the method the officer used to restrain him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          The things is, if Floyd hadn't died then nobody would think twice about the method the officer used to restrain him. So I think whether or not a healthy person would have survived that same treatment is relevant. Not to say that the officer's actions were justified, but it makes the difference between a department reprimand and a murder indictment.
          According to this Newsweek Article it has been used at least 237 times in the last 5 years resulting in 44 people being rendered unconcious:

          Minneapolis Police Department officers have used neck restraints to subdue at least 237 people since 2015, according to an NBC News report published on Monday.

          The report, which analyzed Minneapolis police records dating back roughly five years, also found that officers' use of the disarming restraint tactic caused subjects to lose consciousness in 44 of those instances.


          Apparently, this is a normal procedure used by Minneapolis Officers.
          "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

          "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
            Well said (highlight). It's often difficult to get past tribalism and get to the truth of a matter like this. I had mentioned elsewhere that Officer Lane attempted to rectify the situation with Floyd but was ignored. I had leftists go ballistic on me that I was defending "the enemy" by saying that - saying Lane was guilty of murder because he didn't stop the murder (despite the fact that murder is only identifiable after the fact). They just immediately saw red and couldn't think straight. Scary sometimes.
            Yes, if you don't stay with the liberal narrative, you get blasted as defending the actor, or desecrating the memory of the victim.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
              According to this Newsweek Article it has been used at least 237 times in the last 5 years resulting in 44 people being rendered unconcious:

              Minneapolis Police Department officers have used neck restraints to subdue at least 237 people since 2015, according to an NBC News report published on Monday.

              The report, which analyzed Minneapolis police records dating back roughly five years, also found that officers' use of the disarming restraint tactic caused subjects to lose consciousness in 44 of those instances.


              Apparently, this is a normal procedure used by Minneapolis Officers.
              wow

              So why is nobody calling for the resignation of the Chief?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                ...Mean vicious cop kills poor innocent saintly black person for no reason whatsoever.
                Portray the victim as totally blameless. There is actually a painting on the side of the Breakfast Club in Houston with George Floyd having angel wings and a halo.
                Portray the cop as ruthless and race motivated. (not so difficult in this particular case)....
                Should anybody think I'm exaggerating even a teeny bit....

                george floyd angel.jpg
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Should anybody think I'm exaggerating even a teeny bit....

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]45294[/ATTACH]
                  I don't think the angel wings are warranted though to be fair art sometimes exaggerates for effect ;).

                  Rambo_trump.gif
                  Last edited by DivineOb; 06-04-2020, 12:23 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                    I don't think the angel wings are warranted though to be fair art sometimes exaggerates for effect ;).
                    It's all part of the narrative.
                    It was TRAGIC even if he was a not-so-nice guy.
                    He most certainly was not perfect.
                    But liberals seem incapable of talking OUTSIDE the narrative.
                    Any FACTS that don't support the narrative must be ignored, and the presenter of those facts attacked as a racist.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Yes, if you don't stay with the liberal narrative, you get blasted as defending the actor, or desecrating the memory of the victim.
                      It's not like the history of systematic racism in this country should be dismissed, though.

                      The desire to keep black people repressed manifested itself in many ways: social pressure against talking too loudly, against them organizing in groups, against moving outside of designated areas, etc. To a person on the repressed side of the fence, supporting the police in the face of this documented killing looks like the same thing. So does criticizing those who don't temper their support of Floyd & the demonstrations in just the right way.

                      It's much more complicated than a liberal narrative. This country has a RECENT history of keeping black people under-the-thumb, so to a black person, criticizing support for Floyd looks exactly like it's still going on. To some white people (who support an end to the systemic racism), it looks like that, too.

                      ps. I'm not dismissing the implication that some liberals over-react to a perceived racism, though.
                      Last edited by Whateverman; 06-04-2020, 01:03 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                        It's not like the history of systematic racism in this country should be dismissed, though.
                        Not at all.

                        The desire to keep black people repressed manifested itself in many ways: social pressure against talking too loudly, against them organizing in groups, against moving outside of designated areas, etc. To a person on the repressed side of the fence, supporting the police in the face of this documented killing looks like the same thing. So does criticizing those who don't temper their support of Floyd & the demonstrations in just the right way.

                        It's much more complicated than a liberal narrative. This country has a RECENT history of keeping black people under-the-thumb, so to a black person, criticizing support for Floyd looks exactly like it's still going on. To some white people (who support an end to the systemic racism), it looks like that, too.
                        Perhaps you missed that this was in reference to portraying George Floyd as an angel? THAT part of the narrative?
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          The things is, if Floyd hadn't died then nobody would think twice about the method the officer used to restrain him.
                          Cow Poke does, he's claimed more than once in this thread and others that all people there are culpable for the murder.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                            Not that it makes any difference. He also had meth in his system.
                            I'd like a second opinion on that, but even if there are traces of meth in his system and antibodies for COVID-19, neither are listed as the cause of the death.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              I'd like a second opinion on that, but even if there are traces of meth in his system and antibodies for COVID-19, neither are listed as the cause of the death.
                              Which is why I said that it doesn't make much difference. The covid could have made him weaker, perhaps made it more difficult to breathe, and will almost certainly be used in court by Chauven's attorney.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                                Cow Poke does, he's claimed more than once in this thread and others that all people there are culpable for the murder.
                                Well, to be fair, if Floyd hadn't died, there'd be no murder.

                                But, yes, I believe the other officers (not all people there) were complicit because at least ONE of them should have been more proactive in stopping Chauvin. It appears Lane made an effort, but not enough.

                                The only think I can think of on that was that Chauvin was "that kind of guy" where you just can't tell him what to do. Lane seemed awfully reserved in his attempts.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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