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Floyd Tested Positive for Covid

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
    Wrong. You are having trouble with confirmation bias. I've said several times here that (1) this was a news item, and (2) it didn't matter regarding Chauvin's crime, and (3) it was noteworthy because of the covid. Covid can make it difficult to breathe, so a defense attorney might zero in on that. That's the whole point.

    Should I confirm racism on your part in the fact that you haven't started a thread regarding Chauvin's 18 previous violations? Using your logic, that should be my conclusion.
    The pattern has nothing to do with you personal opinion or motivation. And it is not established by any single thread or post. It is simply a fact that the emphasis in this forum from the conservative voices has been what is wrong with the victims and very little has been said about how bad the killers were. That pattern exists for a reason. But It doesn't mean every post in this forum or in these threads exist only for that reason.

    It is also a fact that as this thread progressed, it became more an more in sync with that pattern, even if your op was effectively 'accidentally' consistent with that pattern.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-07-2020, 07:47 PM.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      The pattern has nothing to do with you personal opinion or motivation. And it is not established by any single thread or post. It is simply a fact that the emphasis in this forum from the conservative voices has been what is wrong with the victims and very little has been said about how bad the killers were. That pattern exists for a reason. But It doesn't mean every post in this forum or in these threads exist only for that reason.

      It is also a fact that as this thread progressed, it became more an more in sync with that pattern, even if your op was effectively 'accidentally' consistent with that pattern.
      Fair enough. But the only thread that fits your description (IMO) is the Arbery thread.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Ronson View Post
        Fair enough. But the only thread that fits your description (IMO) is the Arbery thread.
        Hey, if you can see the arbery thread fits that description, I will take it!
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          Hey, if you can see the arbery thread fits that description, I will take it!
          I haven't read all the posts. But based on my scanning that seemed to be a complaint.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            Yes.
            Great. Then it is at least possible that what happened to Arbery and to Floyd was not racist, even though it was wrong. How can we determine if it was racist? only by looking carefully at all the facts. Racism is a belief or a motivation, that another person of a different race (or a particular race) is inferior and lesser because of their race. So to know that some act is racist, we have to know why the person doing the act did it. What were they thinking?


            I tried to keep this as short as I could....



            You first posted in this series of threads about the incidents with Arbery and Floyd by rejecting Littlejoe’s presentation of some of the facts of the Arbery case as ‘rhetoric’. You judged that there was ‘no justification’ for what happened, and this you have repeated many times in different places.

            You then accused him of “playing into the racist stereotypes” for saying that there were 'lots of mistakes, including one by Arbery' – trying to wrestle the gun away. Note that he did not say Arbery was solely at fault. If anything . he implies that most of the mistakes were not made by Arbery. But that's still 'supporting racism', to you.


            (1) Prejudicial Double standard

            When people presented facts about Arbery (and Floyd) that may cast them in a less innocent light, or may show that they in some way made poor choices that were a part of what happened, you respond by repeating your hasty judgment that there can be ‘no justification’, that it was racism; and you personally attack those people by saying that they ‘are supporting racism’.

            When no-one presented facts about the McMichaels and Chauvin that may show that they are at fault (or worse) you complain that this shows that other posters are racist, too.

            ThatÂ’s a blatant double standard: you are against any facts that may show that Arbery may have made some poor choices that made the incident more dangerous; but you are in favour of facts that may show that the McMichaels acted recklessly or with bad intentions.

            You are in favour of presenting facts that may show Chauvin to be a ’bad cop’ – the complaints against him, but it is ‘supporting racism’ to simply report that Floyd had Covid and was on drugs.

            Facts arenÂ’t racist, oxmixmudd. They cannot be racist. Thinking that they are is delusional.


            That you are happy to look at one group of facts in these cases, and against looking at another group of facts shows that you are prejudiced - you have made up your mind without taking all the facts into consideration - in fact you reject any attempt to do that as ‘supporting racism’.


            (2) Hypocrisy

            It is hypocritical of you to shut down people discussing facts around the cases – with your immediate declarations of ‘there can be no justification’, and your attacks on people who are simply talking about the facts as ‘supporting racism’, and then complain that people aren’t discussing the facts that you would like them to discuss. Yeah, well maybe they got sick of being called racist for not immediately agreeing with your jumped-to conclusions.

            You donÂ’t get to start your involvement with this whole discussion by rejecting the presentation of facts, imputing dishonest and racist motives to other posters, and then moan about people not presenting facts. And itÂ’s not like you did that in a couple of posts, or to one poster only.


            (3) Mindreading and attributing bad motives to other posters

            You assume the right to divine the motivations of posters. You donÂ’t address what they say, you also attack what you presume is their motivation for saying it. Insanely, you also attack people as racist for not raising things you think they should. You simply have no idea why people didn't post, or didn't respond. Maybe because you've been a jerk to everyone who doesn't think like you??? Maybe because they didn't see the post, or didn't have time, or lost interest, or moved on to other things, or aren't an American obsessed with race, or....

            You’re on VERY shaky ground here, especially when your attacks are as serious as accusing people – both directly and with broad brush statements of supporting racism. Say that to someone’s face and you’re likely to get (rightly) a punch in the nose. It could be grounds for legal action against you.
            You simply don’t know enough – none of us do – about other poster’s lives and backgrounds to presume to understand all their motivations. Stop doing it.

            If you think IÂ’m wrong about this, pm me with everything you know about me and my background. If you can produce a significant amount of relevant information (including things like my cultural and racial background, my life experiences, my current living circumstances,) then I will publicly withdraw this particular comment and apologise to you.


            (4) A Mirror image.

            I’m going to write something as if it came from someone of an opposite view to you – and ‘extreme right’ if you like, who responds to your posts the way you have responded to others. If you think that this response is wrong and over the top, then realize that that is –slightly exaggerated - how you come across to others here.

            Get ready to be offendedÂ….

            [quote=Â’Angry ConservativeÂ’]ItÂ’s obvious whatÂ’s going on here. You canÂ’t accept that anyone who is black can be in any way at fault when something bad happens to them. You automatically, and prejudicially, see every negative white-black interaction as racism, because youÂ’re obsessed with it. Probably because youÂ’re an armchair warrior who never actually does anything to help the people you claim to be so concerned about.

            Your refusal to look at these matters with any objectivity is raising a spectre of racism where possibly none exists. Sometimes people do dumb or even bad things to other people, things that hurt or even kill them, and itÂ’s not racism, just foolishness and machismo and all that stupid stuff. But not in your world. So you deny evidence, smear and attack people who have a differing view, and always, always, play the race card.

            You’re a race-baiter, creating fear and stress in the minds of black people, because ‘everyone out there’ is always out to get them. It’s people like you that encourage race rioting, looting and violence. You have blood on your hands, pal. Take a good look at yourself.[quote]


            Summary –

            Oxmixmudd, I have always argued for looking at all the facts, and making the most truthful conclusion we can from them, no matter what that is. Why?

            Because until we have truly, deeply, and correctly diagnosed what is going on, we canÂ’t heal the hurts.
            Because when we refuse to look at all the facts, honestly, no matter how much they hurt us, we allow an escape route for people who donÂ’t want to accept their responsibility for their part of the problem.
            Because, as Christians, we are called to love and value the truth. We are told to speak the truth in love.

            Because I want to know the truth. About everything. So help me God.

            IÂ’m done. Out.

            IÂ’m not interacting with you for the time being, until you stop attacking the integrity and morality of people who donÂ’t jump to your conclusions. You do it in anything political, and youÂ’re doing it here. YouÂ’re simply unable to be objective enough about these things to be credible or interesting, or helpful.
            ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Ronson View Post
              Which is why I said that it doesn't make much difference. The covid could have made him weaker, perhaps made it more difficult to breathe, and will almost certainly be used in court by Chauven's attorney.
              Yep... that was my point asking if it's reasonable to think a healthy person would have survived, because you know the defense is going to put that question to the jury. Remember, the only thing that stands between a verdict of "guilty" and "not guilty" is reasonable doubt.

              But I think Chauvin, at least, needs to face consequences, because it seems pretty clear that he went far beyond what was necessary to restrain an unruly suspect.
              Last edited by Mountain Man; 06-08-2020, 11:32 AM.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                It's amazing that those who bow in reverence to "the scientific method", and blast ANYBODY who "questions the science", would think it's somehow virtuous to ONLY look at the facts that support their narrative.
                Problem I've noted recently is that we'll state some basic facts, and the peanut gallery will squawk, "But that implicates the victim and justifies the killing!" And I'm thinking, "What a curious conclusion to jump to, because that's not a conclusion I would have reached based on the facts." But then the bait and switch happens: the peanut gallery projects their conclusions onto us and then accuses us of racism for believing that the killing was justified and the victim deserved to die even if we have emphatically stated the exact opposite, but once they get it in their heads, there's no dissuading them, and further discussion becomes rather pointless.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Problem I've noted recently is that we'll state some basic facts, and the peanut gallery will squawk, "But that implicates the victim and justifies the killing!" And I'm thinking, "What a curious conclusion to jump to, because that's not a conclusion I would have reached based on the facts." But then the bait and switch happens: the peanut gallery projects their conclusions onto us and then accuses us of racism for believing that the killing was justified and the victim deserved to die even if we have emphatically stated the exact opposite, but once they get it in their heads, there's no dissuading them, and further discussion becomes rather pointless.
                  At this point, I'm really beginning to think that liberalism -- at least as portrayed by our very own Tweb liberals -- is a mental illness, involving fried brain syndrome.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Problem I've noted recently is that we'll state some basic facts, and the peanut gallery will squawk, "But that implicates the victim and justifies the killing!" And I'm thinking, "What a curious conclusion to jump to, because that's not a conclusion I would have reached based on the facts." But then the bait and switch happens: the peanut gallery projects their conclusions onto us and then accuses us of racism for believing that the killing was justified and the victim deserved to die even if we have emphatically stated the exact opposite, but once they get it in their heads, there's no dissuading them, and further discussion becomes rather pointless.
                    Anyone can twist what was said into something that was not said and then claim it is silly to say such a thing.


                    But it does make you look very stupid.


                    ETA: I would propose a requirement that when attempting to summarize another person's point, a quote of the source text forming the basis of the summary be provided with a link back to the original post(s) for context. I would make it much harder for the dishonest among us to mischaracterize points made by the people they are arguing against, and it may help increase the actual honesty of the arguments being made.
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-08-2020, 03:05 PM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      Anyone can twist what was said into something that was not said and then claim it is silly to say such a thing.


                      But it does make you look very stupid.
                      It's pathetic. Post after post MM throws dirt at the victim and then foolishly he seems to think it will go under the radar if only he claims he is not trying to justify what happened. There is an obvious racist bias in his perspective.
                      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        ETA: I would propose a requirement that when attempting to summarize another person's point, a quote of the source text forming the basis of the summary be provided with a link back to the original post(s) for context. I would make it much harder for the dishonest among us to mischaracterize points made by the people they are arguing against, and it may help increase the actual honesty of the arguments being made.
                        I have LONG insisted that the actual quote function be used to show the exact words that are being argued against, because too many times, my words get "summarized", ending up not sounding like ANYTHING I said. Not just a "cut n paste" or, as a certain other poster likes to pretend, a "paraphrase" --- but the actual quote with the built-in hyperlink provided by the quote function itself.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          At this point, I'm really beginning to think that liberalism -- at least as portrayed by our very own Tweb liberals -- is a mental illness, involving fried brain syndrome.
                          Kind of shocked to see you write this. Sounds very RWNJ-ish to me.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                            Kind of shocked to see you write this. Sounds very RWNJ-ish to me.
                            Perhaps you missed the qualifiers?
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Perhaps you missed the qualifiers?
                              What qualifiers did I miss? I post on TWeb and proudly liberal...

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                                What qualifiers did I miss? I post on TWeb and proudly liberal...
                                Ah, fair enough! My apologies.

                                I forgot to include the "far left fringe". Does that include you?
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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