Why Public Health Experts Have Lost All Credibility...

[Cow Poke]

One might note that you seem to be complaining about nuance surrounding this issue.

One might?

I'm happy to take a look at whatever you want to link me but I don't remember *ever* hearing that "face masks don't help" only that "face masks will do you little unlike health workers who need them tremendously."

A) You don't remember Fauci initially suggesting we NOT wear face masks?
2) You haven't seen the link to WHO's website where their FAQ suggests NOT wearing face masks, except...
C) You think "purposely misleading" somebody is a good strategy that builds trust and confidence?
4) WHERE have I said or implied that "face masks don't help"?

In your world, is "purposely misleading" called "nuance"?

[DivineOb]

One might?

Would you prefer I say "You are..."? That seems more accusatory than I would prefer.

A) You don't remember Fauci initially suggesting we NOT wear face masks?

You can link me to whatever you want me to read. I don't watch the news and I don't watch Trump's briefings. This is the first hit I get when searching for "fauci don't wear face masks."

2) You haven't seen the link to WHO's website where their FAQ suggests NOT wearing face masks, except...
C) You think "purposely misleading" somebody is a good strategy that builds trust and confidence?

I need to see what you are referencing so I can understand whether / how people were allegedly being misled. It is possible that there was *nuance* in what was said *or* it reflected the best understanding of the time. If you can give me a starting point I can look into this myself for my own understanding. I haven't researched this enough for myself (I already knew that masks work if everyone can get them and wear them. As I've said, my wife is from HK where they've dealt with this a few times before already).

I tried opening older snapshots of the CDC COVID 19 mask advice on archive.org but couldn't get that to work so I can't see their phrasing.

4) WHERE have I said or implied that "face masks don't help"?

If you really want a response to this I'll give it but that was my interpretation of your CDC paraphrase. Whatevs.

In your world, is "purposely misleading" called "nuance"?

No. That people were being "purposely misled" is something I would need to take a look at. As I said, it is known that masks help when worn by the population at large and has been known for *years* if not decades!

[Cow Poke]

Would you prefer I say "You are..."? That seems more accusatory than I would prefer.

I'm a big girl.

You can link me to whatever you want me to read. I don't watch the news and I don't watch Trump's briefings. This is the first hit I get when searching for "fauci don't wear face masks."

It's been all over this board - it really doesn't seem fair to have to bring it all up again. Initially, Fauci had explained (not the video you posted) that it's problematic for people to wear face masks, because they don't know how to wear them, they fiddle with them, they touch their faces....

Later, it was claimed he was being purposely misleading so that the first responders would have sufficient masks.

A) this source is the NYT, and they have lost pretty much all credibility, but it's the first link I found quickly
2) it's behind a paywall, so I'll find a better source
C) it's opinion, but, nevertheless ---

I need to see what you are referencing so I can understand whether / how people were allegedly being misled. It is possible that there was *nuance* in what was said *or* it reflected the best understanding of the time. If you can give me a starting point I can look into this myself for my own understanding. I haven't researched this enough for myself (I already knew that masks work if everyone can get them and wear them. As I've said, my wife is from HK where they've dealt with this a f

I think your typewriter ran out of ink, or the ribbon broke.

I tried opening older snapshots of the CDC COVID 19 mask advice on archive.org but couldn't get that to work so I can't see their phrasing.

I was referring to WHO, not CDC.

If you really want a response to this I'll give it but that was my interpretation of your CDC paraphrase. Whatevs.

CDC?

No. That people were being "purposely misled" is something I would need to take a look at. As I said, it is known that masks help when worn by the population at large and has been known for *years* if not decades!

I'm not arguing the effectiveness at all -- I'm arguing the MIXED MESSAGING.

[Cow Poke]

You can link me to whatever you want me to read.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post742819

[Whateverman]

Responses to this letter are the reason I don't believe that the typical American is able to walk and chew gum at the same time in their exploration of complex social / political issues. Do I agree with the letter? More 'no' than 'yes.' Does this letter mean "we need not listen to [Public Health Experts]"? Come on...

Exactly right.

Americans these days only read information from the media right up to the point that it allows them to conclude "I'm right!". They stop as soon as that happens - which is a shame, because a closer reading of the information being presented could either tell the reader to not make hasty conclusions, or that more investigation (on the part of the reader) is warranted.

Just because a thousand people signed some document means little UNLESS you know:

• exactly who produced the document
• exactly what the document says
• exactly who those signees were

Most people will never know each of these things before deciding "this reinforces my conclusions on [X]!", and thus spouting off to other people about things they've made hasty conclusions about.

Are Floyd mass-protests bad for COVID-19 transmission?

Obviously yes.

How dangerous?

We're going to find out pretty soon...

[Whateverman]

Here's the letter.

Go read it if the formatting here makes you nauseous...

age

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[Cow Poke]

Here's the letter.

Oh, come on, is this going to be another great thread ruined by FACTS?

[Whateverman]

Oh, come on, is this going to be another great thread ruined by FACTS?

Maybe the letter and the IDs of the signees will confirm the assumption in the OP. I don't know.

All I know is that I want to read more before deciding whether to accept the OP's assumption or not.

[DivineOb]

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post742819

I will read this entire thread and get back to you.

Sorry for getting CDC and WHO mixed up. Honestly I don't know what to make of the WHO after I saw the recent interview where (whoever it was from WHO) wouldn't acknowledge that Taiwan was not part of PRC and then cut the interview. I generally discourage people from making hasty judgements against large organizations based on isolated datapoints but it's pretty tough for me to swallow that.

[Cow Poke]

Maybe the letter and the IDs of the signees will confirm the assumption in the OP. I don't know.

All I know is that I want to read more before deciding whether to accept the OP's assumption or not.

[Cow Poke]

I will read this entire thread and get back to you.

Sorry for getting CDC and WHO mixed up. Honestly I don't know what to make of the WHO after I saw the recent interview where (whoever it was from WHO) wouldn't acknowledge that Taiwan was not part of PRC and then cut the interview. I generally discourage people from making hasty judgements against large organizations based on isolated datapoints but it's pretty tough for me to swallow that.

But, see - that's the problem -- if CDC is saying one thing, and WHO is saying another, who's right? How does the average Joe figure that out? What ends up happening is they just figure it's all politics or something.

[Leonhard]

But, see - that's the problem -- if CDC is saying one thing, and WHO is saying another, who's right? How does the average Joe figure that out? What ends up happening is they just figure it's all politics or something.

I prefer the Danish National Serum Institute, they published daily the statistics and showed contamination rates. They did really good in not overblowing it and it quickly became clear that it wasn't spreading nearly as much as had been feared that it could have, which was among the reasons for Denmark easing off the restrictions.

[Cow Poke]

I prefer the Danish National Serum Institute, they published daily the statistics and showed contamination rates. They did really good in not overblowing it and it quickly became clear that it wasn't spreading nearly as much as had been feared that it could have, which was among the reasons for Denmark easing off the restrictions.

[Cow Poke]

You can link me to whatever you want me to read. I don't watch the news and I don't watch Trump's briefings. This is the first hit I get when searching for "fauci don't wear face masks."

OK, this is strange - I KNOW I saw the video of Fauci explaining "there's no need to wear a mask", and I specifically remember him using the word "fiddle", cause I thought that was odd.

So, here's a link to CBS News where they actually cite that very thing....

In March, Fauci told 60 Minutes that masks should largely be reserved for healthcare providers. In April, the recommendations were broadened to include simple masks for the general public.

And there's a hyperlink to the interview...

"There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci told 60 Minutes.

But clicking on that link from CBS to another CBS article yields... no such thing.

There's actually a link clicking back to the original link....

"There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci told 60 Minutes.

While masks may block some droplets, Fauci said, they do not provide the level of protection people think they do. Wearing a mask may also have unintended consequences: People who wear masks tend to touch their face more often to adjust them, which can spread germs from their hands.

But there is another risk to healthy people buying disposable masks as a precaution. The price of face masks is surging, and Prestige Ameritech, the nation's largest surgical mask manufacturer, is now struggling to keep up with the increased demand.

"It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it," Fauci said.

Now, mind you this is CBS News, not some right wing propaganda site...

There are links to videos which are only available, apparently, if you have CBS ALL ACCESS, so

AND.... from that same cite...

For healthy people, both the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend they wear masks only when taking care of those who are sick or suspected of having the virus.

[DivineOb]

It's been all over this board - it really doesn't seem fair to have to bring it all up again. Initially, Fauci had explained (not the video you posted) that it's problematic for people to wear face masks, because they don't know how to wear them, they fiddle with them, they touch their faces....

Later, it was claimed he was being purposely misleading so that the first responders would have sufficient masks.

A) this source is the NYT, and they have lost pretty much all credibility, but it's the first link I found quickly
2) it's behind a paywall, so I'll find a better source
C) it's opinion, but, nevertheless ---

So, I looked through the thread you linked and the NYT article.

1) I don't understand why the WHO still has that guidance. Ox said elsewhere they gave different information but that hardly excuses leaving that outdated advice up. I really have no idea what to make of that.
2) In neither place did I find substantiation of the government intentionally misleading people. I saw *this* in the NYT article



Which is very much not the same thing. It took me around 2 seconds to figure out why masks would be best conserved (if indeed conservation is necessary) for health care workers rather than the general public.

I'm not arguing the effectiveness at all -- I'm arguing the MIXED MESSAGING.

Also, I saw that you said this in that thread

When I see a group of people all wearing masks, I have to smile and think, "years from now, people are going to look back at those pictures and think --- MAN, what a bunch of dummies".

Which I'm having a hard time interpreting in light of this discussion. It sounds like you believe pretty strongly that masks don't help. Is that what you believe?