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Thread: Only Option -- Replace Govt

  1. #11
    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    Freminism has become something caustic nowadays.
    It has always been accused of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    I would question the benefits to society that even from early feminism.
    Women have the right to vote, and access to the workplace. Equality is being restored between men and women. Education is being opened to women, and the work of women is being recognised as well as historical mistakes where women should have been given honours: Discovery of DNA, discovery of nuclear fission, first published program for a computer, etc... Modern day feminism continues to work quite well.

    My concern was that people who claim there is white privilege inherent in the system thereby would dismiss the continuation of the US Constitution in any form.
    I'm more concerned with alt-righters legally taking over the government and instituting fascist principles in the name of traditionalism. That's happened before in the world. Denmark was neighbor to a country that went through that.

  2. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
  3. #12
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whateverman View Post
    That's false; there's more than one option. Here are a few:


    • The option you listed: start over. Rebuild the constitution and government.
    • Amend the existing constitution to ensure rights exist and are enforced independent on the race of the citizen
    • Culture changes to accept that existing laws are insufficient to address the inequalities embedded in the system. Social change.
    • Without modifying the country's founding documents, build institutions which ensure racial justice. Review boards which reject or validate the conclusions made by organizations where systemic racism has prevailed in the past.



    That's 3 more options than the one you assumed. Each has pros and cons.

    I don't know which one I prefer the most, but I'm damned-sure that "The US Constitution and government must be destroyed and replaced" isn't one of them.
    You somewhat have missed what I said. If the US Constitution and the government was designed in a fashion that intrinsially establishes this so-called white privilege, the implied requirement is that the US Constitution and government be displaced by something else. I'm not against fixing weaknesses. As you have shown, there are provisions. But what do we do if all the provisions for change also are defined as a continuation of a system of white privilege? The question then is, what change is being envisioned by those who say the system was wrong from the beginning?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    It has always been accused of that.



    Women have the right to vote, and access to the workplace. Equality is being restored between men and women. Education is being opened to women, and the work of women is being recognised as well as historical mistakes where women should have been given honours: Discovery of DNA, discovery of nuclear fission, first published program for a computer, etc... Modern day feminism continues to work quite well.



    I'm more concerned with alt-righters legally taking over the government and instituting fascist principles in the name of traditionalism. That's happened before in the world. Denmark was neighbor to a country that went through that.
    If there are alt-righters, they are likely a small group and highly disfavored by the right and left, alike. This is not the focus of this thread though.

  5. #14
    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    If there are alt-righters, they are likely a small group and highly disfavored by the right and left, alike. This is not the focus of this thread though.
    So far they are small, but the election of Trump has envigorated them, and some of them have been cited favorably here more than once by members I won't mention. I think it's far more likely for them to rise to power, than for the US to turn into a communist tyranny like the Soviet Union.

  6. #15
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  7. #16
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    So far they are small, but the election of Trump has envigorated them, and some of them have been cited favorably here more than once by members I won't mention. I think it's far more likely for them to rise to power, than for the US to turn into a communist tyranny like the Soviet Union.
    I think we have already lost the battle for freedom, as much as we can fight.

    Listening to God Bless America now. We can pray that God blesses her and the people within her (and that such blessings happen in other countries) -- for a freedom defined by God.

  8. #17
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    You somewhat have missed what I said. If the US Constitution and the government was designed in a fashion that intrinsially establishes this so-called white privilege, the implied requirement is that the US Constitution and government be displaced by something else. I'm not against fixing weaknesses. As you have shown, there are provisions. But what do we do if all the provisions for change also are defined as a continuation of a system of white privilege? The question then is, what change is being envisioned by those who say the system was wrong from the beginning?
    The system wasn't wrong from the beginning, and the Founders weren't omniscient gods. Times change and whatever flaws there may be in the Constitution and in laws in general can be amended. The Founders did a darn good job considering, but they couldn't think of everything, or plug every loophole that the monied interests would learn to skirt.

  9. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
  10. #18
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    The system wasn't wrong from the beginning, and the Founders weren't omniscient gods. Times change and whatever flaws there may be in the Constitution and in laws in general can be amended. The Founders did a darn good job considering, but they couldn't think of everything, or plug every loophole that the monied interests would learn to skirt.
    So you are for dissolution of the nation and subjecting ourselves to some new system while political differences are so strong?

    What solution is being offered to go beyond the supposed white-privileged system?

  11. #19
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    So you are for dissolution of the nation and subjecting ourselves to some new system while political differences are so strong?

    What solution is being offered to go beyond the supposed white-privileged system?
    White privilege and supremacy has dominated the USA its whole history. The Constitution is the road to change. Things are changing slowly.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  12. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
  13. #20
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    White privilege and supremacy has dominated the USA its whole history. The Constitution is the road to change. Things are changing slowly.
    is this what those people are saying he speak against a system built on white privilege? Are such people okay with the status quo then or a revision of the whole system of government?

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