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Trump’s Approval Slips Where He Can’t Afford to Lose It: Among Evangelicals

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  • Trump’s Approval Slips Where He Can’t Afford to Lose It: Among Evangelicals

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/u...core-ios-share


    Polls and private concerns from top social conservatives show the president’s standing with the cornerstone of his base isn’t what it used to be. A photo op with the Bible was supposed to help fix that.

    But numerous polls have shown that like most other Americans, religious Americans increasingly disapprove of how the president is doing his job — a shift that would imperil Mr. Trump’s re-election if he is not able to reverse it.

    Robert P. Jones, chief executive of the Public Religion Research Institute, noted that since 2016, the share of the American population that is white and evangelical has declined by two percentage points, to 15 percent.

    In March, nearly 80 percent of white evangelicals said they approved of the job Mr. Trump was doing, PRRI found. But by the end of May, with the country convulsed by racial discord, Mr. Trump’s favorability among white evangelicals had fallen 15 percentage points to 62 percent, according to a PRRI poll released Thursday. That is consistent with declines that other surveys have picked up recently. Among white Catholics, the same poll also found that his approval has fallen by 27 points since March.



    To be honest I have no idea why they'd stop supporting Trump *now* other than possibly being out of a job. Trump's behavior through the first half of this year is maybe a little worse than the past but not by much. Since Trump's base wasn't enough to even get him elected the first time any drop in support (or overdue dying) by them is a death sentence for him.

  • #2
    They have seen Trumpco use the Holy Bible as a political prop. He’s a sinking ship.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

    Comment


    • #3
      Very, very interesting. Like you I am a bit surprised why they stop now since they already lost their integrity long ago and I would suppose they had gotten so used to the hypocrisy. But, luckily, it seems some repent.

      I found this interesting article as well: A Man of Faith Wonders at How Evangelicals Can Support Trump

      The presidency of Donald Trump offends Peter Wehner on many levels, but most of all as someone who takes ideas — and words — seriously. A former speechwriter for George W. Bush who also served in the administrations of Bush’s father and Ronald Reagan, Wehner is horrified at the way the president uses words “to murder the very idea of truth.” Trump, Wehner writes in “The Death of Politics,” his lament for the state of our civic discourse, “embodies a Nietzschean morality rather than a Christian one.”
      The rise of Trump, and the slavish devotion he inspires among leading evangelicals, has forced Wehner to consider seriously something he had always deemed a secular slander: that “both politics and the Christian witness are now made worse by people of faith actively involving themselves in politics.”

      Wehner attributes this degeneration to the adoption of an all-or-nothing mentality by his fellow evangelicals, for whom eight years of Barack Obama were apparently so catastrophic that a figure like Trump could emerge as the country’s improbable savior.
      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

      Comment


      • #4
        Wasn't there a CNN poll released toward the end of last month showing that while Biden leads in national polls he's several points behind in the battleground states?

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          They may also be alarmed to see the Russkies planning to expand foreign military bases and Russian influence abroad, while the US withdraws, and makes the excuse that other NATO countries are not pulling their weight. The evangelicals want to be actors on the world stage. Trump is acting to cut them off.
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment


          • #6
            “In this time of pandemic fear and social isolation, in this time of racial injustice and senseless violence, in this time of economic uncertainty and generational pain, we should be careful not to use the Bible as a political symbol, one more prop in a noisy news cycle,” said Whitney T. Kuniholm, senior vice president of the American Bible Society.
            https://www.christianitytoday.com/ne...oto-op-sy.html
            "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
              To be honest I have no idea why they'd stop supporting Trump *now*
              I don't even think joblessness explains it.

              As an atheist, it's very tempting to use this loss of evangelical support as a launching point for a rant against Christianity here in the US. I'm making a herculean effort to avoid that, however, which is why I'm simply reiterating your question. Trump was elected in part due to support from Christian conservatives, and why it should suddenly drop now is a mystery to me. That voting bloc was willing to turn a blind eye to standards/values they'd advocated (in a POTUS) in the past, so whatever the reason might be for their sagging support for him now, it certainly isn't a principled one.

              The only reason *I* can think of is that Trump's flaws might be reaching some sort of a critical mass. Yes, the country is in bad shape right now, but Trump was able to check off a few religiously conservative boxes prior to this without being a particularly good leader. These days, he doesn't seem to be able to do anything, and his inability to lead is now having literally deadly consequences.

              Even if the above is hyperbole (and I don't think it is), the basic fact remains: Trump is a bad president, and it's become impossible for him to hide this simply by whining about Democrats and liberals. Maybe he's crossed some invisible line, one that finally makes some of his supporters realize he never deserved to infest the white house in the first place.

              Comment


              • #8
                Looking at how evangelicals have adored him, I suspect it would take a whole lot more (like Trump outrightly denouncing God or something) for their support to permanently shutter.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Wasn't there a CNN poll released toward the end of last month showing that while Biden leads in national polls he's several points behind in the battleground states?
                  Maybe. I think I remember something like that, though I'm not sure how long ago it was.

                  There was a more recent poll showing Biden ahead of Trump in several battleground states. I may be misremembering this, but I believe it came from Fox.

                  ps. I know there definitely was a recent Fox poll representing bad news for Trump, but whether it was the same as the battleground poll I mention, I can't be sure.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Whateverman View Post
                    I don't even think joblessness explains it.

                    As an atheist, it's very tempting to use this loss of evangelical support as a launching point for a rant against Christianity here in the US. I'm making a herculean effort to avoid that, however, which is why I'm simply reiterating your question. Trump was elected in part due to support from Christian conservatives, and why it should suddenly drop now is a mystery to me. That voting bloc was willing to turn a blind eye to standards/values they'd advocated (in a POTUS) in the past, so whatever the reason might be for their sagging support for him now, it certainly isn't a principled one. [...]
                    When I read that part I started thinking about possible explanations along the lines of "whatever the reason might be for their sagging support for him now, it certainly isn't a principled one". I have a feeling you would not agree with me, so this speculation is all on me... And, of course, their could be numerous reasons. I don't think it is unlikely that some individuals simply don't have the heart or conscience to follow along any longer. Those would be the principled ones, however, I am going to focus on possible reasons for the not so principled ones:

                    If it isn't based on principles, ideas and ideals it could be due to the fact that for the first time, they are starting to really feel the consequence of an incompetent, brutal leader. So far he was their bully, others suffered the consequences. Now it is their very own crisis, their own jobs, their own economy, their own family dying when likely they could have survived if the president had acted at an earlier state instead of claiming it was under control. Perhaps some are slowly starting to realize that this crisis does not come out of nothing. The country obviously needs unification, I guess it is very hard, even for Trump supporters to believe he can deliver. The dehumanizing talk about different groups (the others) created the situation in which conflicts are a lot more likely to escalate and damage the country (even for the evangelicals).

                    It was all so easy when it was only about others suffering the consequences. Now it is the entire nation suffering the consequences and is finding itself in a deep crisis. Some of it is caused by lies, incompetence and the division created by Trump. If anyone was in this for their own benefit and not for the principles they lost even that. So, they did not even win the world...
                    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Charles View Post
                      When I read that part I started thinking about possible explanations along the lines of "whatever the reason might be for their sagging support for him now, it certainly isn't a principled one". I have a feeling you would not agree with me, so this speculation is all on me... And, of course, their could be numerous reasons. I don't think it is unlikely that some individuals simply don't have the heart or conscience to follow along any longer. Those would be the principled ones, however, I am going to focus on possible reasons for the not so principled ones:

                      If it isn't based on principles, ideas and ideals it could be due to the fact that for the first time, they are starting to really feel the consequence of an incompetent, brutal leader. So far he was their bully, others suffered the consequences. Now it is their very own crisis, their own jobs, their own economy, their own family dying when likely they could have survived if the president had acted at an earlier state instead of claiming it was under control. Perhaps some are slowly starting to realize that this crisis does not come out of nothing. The country obviously needs unification, I guess it is very hard, even for Trump supporters to believe he can deliver. The dehumanizing talk about different groups (the others) created the situation in which conflicts are a lot more likely to escalate and damage the country (even for the evangelicals).

                      It was all so easy when it was only about others suffering the consequences. Now it is the entire nation suffering the consequences and is finding itself in a deep crisis. Some of it is caused by lies, incompetence and the division created by Trump. If anyone was in this for their own benefit and not for the principles they lost even that. So, they did not even win the world...
                      Where you speculated, I over-generalized. I have a very dim view of evangelical Christianity in the US, but it's obvious even to me that some evangelicals still have principles. I guess I just think that of the ones who support(ed) the current president, most decide(d) to give him a pass on many of those principles.

                      Beyond that, your speculation sounds reasonable; it's certainly more reasonable than my blanket-dismissal was.

                      edit: I've been saying for more than two decades now that the US is in the middle of a culture war: conservative vs liberal, Christian vs non-Christian, Democrat vs Republican - they're all part of the same thing. Maybe one of the reasons for sagging evangelical support is the recognition that the right's latest weapon in this war is hurting them as much as anyone else?

                      That's my speculative contribution ;)
                      Last edited by Whateverman; 06-07-2020, 11:33 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm hesitant to believe anything from the New York Times about Trump. Their track record has been poor.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                          https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/u...core-ios-share


                          Polls and private concerns from top social conservatives show the president’s standing with the cornerstone of his base isn’t what it used to be. A photo op with the Bible was supposed to help fix that.

                          But numerous polls have shown that like most other Americans, religious Americans increasingly disapprove of how the president is doing his job — a shift that would imperil Mr. Trump’s re-election if he is not able to reverse it.

                          Robert P. Jones, chief executive of the Public Religion Research Institute, noted that since 2016, the share of the American population that is white and evangelical has declined by two percentage points, to 15 percent.

                          In March, nearly 80 percent of white evangelicals said they approved of the job Mr. Trump was doing, PRRI found. But by the end of May, with the country convulsed by racial discord, Mr. Trump’s favorability among white evangelicals had fallen 15 percentage points to 62 percent, according to a PRRI poll released Thursday. That is consistent with declines that other surveys have picked up recently. Among white Catholics, the same poll also found that his approval has fallen by 27 points since March.



                          To be honest I have no idea why they'd stop supporting Trump *now* other than possibly being out of a job. Trump's behavior through the first half of this year is maybe a little worse than the past but not by much. Since Trump's base wasn't enough to even get him elected the first time any drop in support (or overdue dying) by them is a death sentence for him.
                          You can fool all the people some of the time, some of the people (MM) all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                            I'm hesitant to believe anything from the New York Times about Trump. Their track record has been poor.
                            So you think the NYT is inaccurately reporting the results of the survey?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                              So you think the NYT is inaccurately reporting the results of the survey?
                              They have a clear purpose to color darkly that which they don't approve. Their tendency to use "unnamed sources" and seek out the worst of the opposition has made them clumsy and unreliable, to where I don't even bother with them.

                              Is Jason Horowitz still hunting for the pee tape?

                              Comment

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