Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

[seer]

Asheville attempt at autonomous zone fails miserably, video shows police quickly dismantle barricade

https://www.theblaze.com/news/ashevi...one-chaz-video

[Leonhard]

Asheville attempt at autonomous zone fails miserably, video shows police quickly dismantle barricade

https://www.theblaze.com/news/ashevi...one-chaz-video

This is a different autonomous zone though.

[Cow Poke]

This is a different autonomous zone though.

Yes - Asheville, North Carolina.

[seer]

This is a different autonomous zone though.

Exactly... The police did not put up with it.

[Leonhard]

Exactly... The police did not put up with it.

If enough people move in on an area and they are competent enough in defending it, then the only ones who can get rid of them are the army. And the army should never be deployed against citizens.

[Darth Ovious]

If enough people move in on an area and they are competent enough in defending it, then the only ones who can get rid of them are the army. And the army should never be deployed against citizens.

Is that an absolute?

[Leonhard]

Is that an absolute?

Very close to it. Other than aggressive acts of civil war I don't think it should be done.

[Darth Ovious]

Very close to it. Other than aggressive acts of civil war I don't think it should be done.

Apparently police officers are resigning now. Is the next step up the National Guard? Are you ok with that course of action?

[Cow Poke]

Apparently police officers are resigning now. Is the next step up the National Guard? Are you ok with that course of action?

So far (knock on wood) the police officers in our area are well liked, respected, and receive broad support from the community. Maybe I live in Mayberry.

[Darth Ovious]

So far (knock on wood) the police officers in our area are well liked, respected, and receive broad support from the community. Maybe I live in Mayberry.

Do you live in a city? Perhaps its just the city police that under this pressure.

[Cow Poke]

Do you live in a city? Perhaps its just the city police that under this pressure.

Well, I live outside a city "in the County", but I'm a board member of the Regional Council of Governments, and we stay pretty well informed on these things, I'd think.
This entity is involved with all forms of government and multi-jurisdictional police agencies... Maybe it just hasn't reached us yet.

[Leonhard]

Apparently police officers are resigning now.

They were told the party is over, and they're going to be held more accountable and their department is going to be reformed and then they quit? Weak. Pathetic. Not fit for their uniform.

Is the next step up the National Guard? Are you ok with that course of action?

I don't think that's the next step up. There's plenty of police in the neighboring counties. Reform isn't impossible, and seven officers quitting isn't going to change that.

[Cow Poke]

They were told the party is over, and they're going to be held more accountable and their department is going to be reformed and then they quit? Weak. Pathetic. Not fit for their uniform.

There's this thing in law enforcement, Leon, where an officer has to believe that "command" "has their back".
In some cases, it seems that "command" is capitulating to or caving in to silly demands.
Thing are not always as black and white as they seem.
It could well be that these are good guys in bad departments, or good guys in departments where they believe that command no longer has their back.

I don't think that's the next step up. There's plenty of police in the neighboring counties. Reform isn't impossible, and seven officers quitting isn't going to change that.

It appears it's not just "seven officers".

[Leonhard]

There's this thing in law enforcement, Leon, where an officer has to believe that "command" "has their back".
In some cases, it seems that "command" is capitulating to or caving in to silly demands.
Thing are not always as black and white as they seem.
It could well be that these are good guys in bad departments, or good guys in departments where they believe that command no longer has their back.

Then where is that reform Cow Poke? How are we going to achieve the thing you listed, where its about getting in a good principaled leader, with the auhtority to correct things as he sees fits, freed from concerns about the unions, etc... and at the same time him patting all the officers on the back, ensuring them that he has their back, and nothing is going to change, etc...

Between these two something is going to break.

Reform isn't impossible.

It appears it's not just "seven officers".

And what if it were thirty of them and the entire SWAT team (who are mostly important on irrelevant drug raids anyway). What do you want Cow Poke? Should we throw them a parade and celebrate how couragiously they are, and how full of integrity and good character they've been? A dozen roses to each of them, and a medal for just being swell?

[Cow Poke]

Then where is that reform Cow Poke?

We don't really know what's going on behind the scenes right now, and I'm not one to jump to conclusions.

How are we going to achieve the thing you listed, where its about getting in a good principaled leader, with the auhtority to correct things as he sees fits, freed from concerns about the unions, etc... and at the same time him patting all the officers on the back, ensuring them that he has their back, and nothing is going to change, etc...

Good officers WANT to work in such an environment. The departments in my area seemed pleased that they may actually be able to hire some good candidates as a result of this.

Between these two something is going to break.

Reform isn't impossible.

The folks in Camden NJ got to the point where they believed (and evidence seems to support) that reform was, indeed, impossible, so they went a different route.

And what if it were thirty of them and the entire SWAT team (who are mostly important on irrelevant drug raids anyway).

You're assuming a lot, Leon. IF a loved one were being held hostage in a bank robbery gone bad, for example, you'd be begging for "the SWAT team" to intervene.

What do you want Cow Poke? Should we throw them a parade and celebrate how couragiously they are, and how full of integrity and good character they've been? A dozen roses to each of them, and a medal for just being swell?

Leon, why do you get this way sometimes? We're friends, I thought. Two reasonable men having a reasonable discussion. Sometimes, it appears, you go off on these emotional....

Can we discuss this like reasonable men? Please?