"Abortion is murder"

[Chaotic Void]

Negatory.

The problem with that is, as I said, when "society" works hard to make women "understand" that "it's just a clump of cells", and provides an atmosphere where the woman is actually coerced into "removing the clump of cells", you can't really blame the woman who has been convinced she's simply "having a procedure".

This is one of the dumbest (with all due respect) arguments I've ever encountered, and I've encountered it more than a few times.

In order to charge somebody with murder, there needs to be cause to believe that the person knew, or should have known, that the action they were taking would (or reasonably could) result in the death of another human being.

See the problem? You can't convict somebody for murder who's simply "removing a clump of cells". Else, when fat ladies get that "fat scooped out", they gotsta hasta go to prison, too!

There's also a VERY real chance that the woman is having the procedure done against her will (or without her knowledge). Putting aside deadbeat sperm donors and garbage parents, up here in Canada abortions were one of the procedures- alongside sterilization and surgery- performed on Indigenous Women either without their knowing or even as a means of extortion by their social worker to see their out-of-uterus children as recently as 2017.

[Christianbookworm]

There's also a VERY real chance that the woman is having the procedure done against her will (or without her knowledge). Putting aside deadbeat sperm donors and garbage parents, up here in Canada abortions were one of the procedures- alongside sterilization and surgery- performed on Indigenous Women either without their knowing or even as a means of extortion by their social worker to see their out-of-uterus children as recently as 2017.

That's awful! Forced abortions are evil! And any mate that threatens a break up/divorce if she does not abort is not worthy of being in a relationship with. Period.

[DivineOb]

Moderated By: CP

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That's fine. Mostly I'm just asking definitions. Sorry about that.

So, why isn't the woman a baby-killer? I mean, it seems obvious she's at least as responsible as the doctor. To be clear I think the term 'baby-killer' is warranted.

[firstfloor]

[Cow Poke]

That's fine. Mostly I'm just asking definitions. Sorry about that.

No prob.

So, why isn't the woman a baby-killer? I mean, it seems obvious she's at least as responsible as the doctor. To be clear I think the term 'baby-killer' is warranted.

I've responded to this numerous times in this thread.

[Cow Poke]

Yes, my responses in this thread are clearly maniacal rantings born out of extreme madness.

[DivineOb]

Let's try this.....

You hand a loaded gun to a teenager, who has no experience with guns.
Across the room, there is a screen, behind which a man is standing.
You assure the teen that it's only a projected image - it's not a real person at all.
Regardless of how the teen questions or expresses caution, you repeatedly assure the teen it's not a real person.

The teen fires the gun at "the image", and a body falls to the floor.
Did a murder occur? Yes. The unlawful taking of a human life.
Should the teen go to prison for life? No court in the land would find the teen guilty of murder under those circumstances.
Should the person who convinced the teen to "shoot the not real person" go to jail?
Absolutely.

Is this supposed to be an analogy for abortion? I assume it is. No offense but it's a really bad and self serving one.

[Whateverman]

I hope to see you equally question the "low-hanging and emotionally-charged" language used in other threads here on Civics, such as "Ahmad Arbery: racist killing and attempted cover-up"

It's emotionally-charged, but what I haven't seen is any justification for it being unreasonable or undeserved.

"Low hanging" implies unreasonability.

[JimL]

Is this supposed to be an analogy for abortion? I assume it is. No offense but it's a really bad and self serving one.

It seems to be CP's way a saying that the women seeking an abortion are like ignorant teenagers who aren't mature enough to make their own decisions.

[Cow Poke]

Is this supposed to be an analogy for abortion? I assume it is. No offense but it's a really bad and self serving one.

Actually, not so much. You would not prosecute a teen who was duped into "murdering" something he sincerely believed was not human life.
So why should we prosecute a young girl who was duped into believing she was only eliminating a clump of cells.

[Cow Poke]

Oh, wait... the class clown is about to spew forth ignorance....

It seems to be CP's way a saying

Idiocy follows....

that the women seeking an abortion are like ignorant teenagers who aren't mature enough to make their own decisions.

Actually, most of the "women" who come to us are mere girls - very young women - where were lied to by society and conned into believing that they are only eliminating a "clump of cells".
When they are shown the sonograms and other evidences of human life, the are no long "ignorant", and can make an informed decision.

It is the culture of death that wishes them to remain ignorant.

[Cow Poke]

Let's remember from whence this nonsense came....

It is widely stated that "abortion is murder." Are those who have gotten abortions murderers? Should they not be similarly shunned?

If they are not murderers could they not be accurately described as baby killers?

If a woman believed she was murdering her baby, and literally hired somebody to do that, she needs to go to jail*. Do not past Go, do not collect $200.

IF, on the other hand, she got duped by the culture of death into believing it was only a "clump of cells", then there is no premeditation to commit murder, no contemplation to commit murder, no intent to commit murder.....

Next?



*due process assumed

[Christianbookworm]

When I was eight years old, I would read medical encyclopedias. Because I am weird like that. It was fun to read about various diseases, conditions, and body functions. I liked the drawings of fetal development. Oh, and I have a sister six years younger than me and remember when she was born. One day, I was reading along and came across the entry for abortion which contrasted it with delivery. Doesn't take much to put two and two together to realize that abortion resulted in a dead fetus/baby. I remembered when my baby sister was a fetus and started sobbing. I could figure out it was wrong just by knowing what it was. No one told me about it or told me what to think about it.

[JimL]

Oh, wait... the class clown is about to spew forth ignorance....



Idiocy follows....



Actually, most of the "women" who come to us are mere girls - very young women - where were lied to by society and conned into believing that they are only eliminating a "clump of cells".
When they are shown the sonograms and other evidences of human life, the are no long "ignorant", and can make an informed decision.

It is the culture of death that wishes them to remain ignorant.

So, when you show the mere girls a picture of a newly fertilized egg, they come to realize that it's a human being.

[Cow Poke]

So, when you show the mere girls a picture of a newly fertilized egg, they come to realize that it's a human being.

Why does this idiocy not surprise me even a little?