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Thread: Did the Jews really kill Jesus?

  1. #181
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    The Jewish people understood their own theology quite well.


    Later Pauline theology.

    We know what the Kingdom of God would have meant to first century Jews living under foreign domination and we know why anyone claiming, or being acclaimed as, the Messiah was regarded by the Roman authorities as potential trouble.

    You seem to either not know or forget that there had been other Messianic movements originating in the countryside in that region and nor were some of these movements in the early years of the first century easily subdued. At least one, led by Athronges, a shepherd, took quite some time for either the Roman or Herodian troops to eventually suppress it.

    Neither was that the only messianic movement occurring in the years surrounding the approximate dates for Jesus’ birth. In the late first century BCE and early first century CE there were several mass movements of Jewish peasants who came from villages or towns such as Emmaus, Bethlehem, and Sepphoris. These people rallied to the leadership of charismatic figures who were viewed as “anointed kings of the Jews”. These popular uprisings occurred in all three provincial areas of Jewish settlement in Palestine (i.e. Galilee, Perea, and Judaea).

    Sepphoris, a few miles north of Nazareth, had been burned in 4 BCE and its inhabitants sold into slavery; while Emmaus, which is one of the locations for the resurrection appearances according to Luke, had likewise been destroyed by the Romans for another mass uprising, barely a generation later. [See: R.A. Horsley & J.S. Hanson Bandits, Prophets, and Messiahs: Popular Movements in the Time of Jesus ]
    I am amazed by your answer. Oh well.

  2. #182
    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    I am amazed by your answer. Oh well.
    My reply may amaze you but I cited known historical events.
    "Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies."

  3. #183
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    From my reading.
    Where did you read it.

  4. #184
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    My reply may amaze you but I cited known historical events.
    I don't think that is what mike meant.

  5. #185
    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Where did you read it.
    Dear Christian3

    Should you require a reading list please let me know.

    Best wishes

    H_A
    "Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies."

  6. #186
    tWebber Hypatia_Alexandria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    I don't think that is what mike meant.
    I only know what Mike wrote and can only respond to that.
    "Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies."

  7. #187
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    To a first century Jew the Kingdom of God would have been a theocratic state with an anointed king under god, and with no infidel Romans.
    You might find the following lecture from N.T. Wright interesting:

    https://ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/...g-the-kingdom/

  8. #188
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    I loathe citing Wikipedia for something like this but it isn't like the above deserves better

    Source: Tacitus on Christ


    The scholarly consensus is that Tacitus' reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate is both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source.[5][6][7] Paul Eddy and Gregory Boyd argue that it is "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.[8] Scholars view it as establishing three separate facts about Rome around AD 60: (i) that there were a sizable number of Christians in Rome at the time, (ii) that it was possible to distinguish between Christians and Jews in Rome, and (iii) that at the time pagans made a connection between Christianity in Rome and its origin in Roman Judea.[9][10]




    Source

    © Copyright Original Source

    Only for the fact that the Romans executed Jesus by crucifixion for rebellion against Rome. That was not in doubt.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  9. #189
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    You might find the following lecture from N.T. Wright interesting:

    https://ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/...g-the-kingdom/
    What a fitting name for a New testament scholar.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  10. #190
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    You might find the following lecture from N.T. Wright interesting:

    https://ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/...g-the-kingdom/
    I would not consider NT Wright an unbiased source.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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