Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Did the Jews really kill Jesus?
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I thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the weekend yes. How about you?"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostI thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the weekend yes. How about you?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIf I'd have known grandkids would be so much fun, we would have had the first. Yes, a very fun weekend."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Did the Jews really kill Jesus?
Now in the book of Acts attributed to the writter Luke, cites Peter, verse 4, regarding a man healed, Acts 4:10, ". . . Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. . . ."
While it is true the Jews truly are credited with Jesus being killed. But did they kill Jesus? The answer is no.
And this much you have correct, the New Testament documents are the main source evidence for the resurrected Jesus as the Christ. But not the sole evidence.
. . ."Last edited by 37818; 06-16-2020, 02:11 PM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostThe other question to ask is whether Jews did anything to prevent the death of their Messiah. This is not an indictment against Jews of all ages, yet the question is still relevant for the first half of the first century.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI believe it is clear that Jesus Christ was convicted of a crime of rebellion against Rome claiming to be the King of the Jews. The punishment of crucifixion is the Roman punishment for that crime. Jesus was not the only one convicted and executed by crucifixion for rebellion against Rome. Of course, the Jews would not prevent the execution of Jesus Christ, because they did not believe he was the Messiah, and considered him a heretic
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostFor you, brothers {and sisters,} became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you suffered the same things from your own compatriots as they did from the Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out; they displease God and oppose everyone by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. Thus they have constantly been filling up the measure of their sins; but God’s wrath has overtaken them at last.
1st Thessalonians, 2: 14-16 (NRSV)
Does this extract merely reflect and lend credence to the markedly anti-Semitic tone of the gospel passion narratives, or was the historical situation in fact something rather different?
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI believe it is clear that Jesus Christ was convicted of a crime of rebellion against Rome claiming to be the King of the Jews. The punishment of crucifixion is the Roman punishment for that crime. Jesus was not the only one convicted and executed by crucifixion for rebellion against Rome. Of course, the Jews would not prevent the execution of Jesus Christ, because they did not believe he was the Messiah, and considered him a heretic
Just as a point of clarification the Jews could not have prevented Jesus' execution. The Roman Praefectus was the supreme judicial authority in Judaea, and only he had the power to deal with capital crimes."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostRight. And that generation of Jews suffered for their mistake. And the Roman Empire suffered for doing this.
If we assume Jesus' execution to have been no later than 36 CE [and probably around 30 CE] then the generation of Jews who took part in the 66 CE rebellion would have been very young children or babes in arms when Jesus was executed. If indeed, some of them had even been born in the thirties.
As for the Roman empire, it continued for a few centuries more in the West and for even longer in the East."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostBut the gospels are not anti-Semitic, they have Jewish roots, and mostly Jewish authors, as Paul was also himself a Jew. "The Jews" here and in John in particular is a short-hand way of referring to the leaders of the Jewish nation, and their followers.
Blessings,
Lee
As J.D. Crossan observed "the passion-resurrection stories [are] the matrix for Christian anti-Judaism and eventually for European anti-Semitism,” and that “without that Christian anti-Judaism, lethal and genocidal European anti-Semitism would have been either impossible or at least not widely successful".
Point of information, Paul never calls himself a "Jew"."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostPoint of information, Paul never calls himself a "Jew".
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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