Police guns down man after he tried to flee.

[Terraceth]

This is why ox thinks the way he does (posted in a thread some months ago):
I suspect he's battling his own racist demons and seeks comfort by trying to convince himself that everybody else is just like him.

I don't think this kind of psychoanalysis is either accurate nor particularly appropriate.

[Mountain Man]

I don't think this kind of psychoanalysis is either accurate nor particularly appropriate.

By his own admission, he grew up steeped in racism. In these discussions, he fixates on skin color almost to the exclusion of all else while falsely accusing other posters of being racist. It's not hard to connect the dots.

[Mountain Man]

You need a new rhyme to fall back to MM. I simply speak the truth. That makes you mad, so you lash out and claim somehow speaking the truth is 'self-righteous'. It's not, but it seems to make you and the peanut gallery happy. So be it.

And you go right back into the mud while shouting about how clean you are. That was an easy prediction, because it's your usual pattern.

Sorry, ox, but you have exchanged the truth for a lie. You're the one obsessed with skin color, not us, but the log in your eye obscures your vision.

[oxmixmudd]

By his own admission, he grew up steeped in racism. In these discussions, he fixates on skin color almost to the exclusion of all else while falsely accusing other posters of being racist. It's not hard to connect the dots.

Actually, no MM. I did not grow up steeped in racism. I grew up north of the Mason-dixon line in a decidedly progressive and non racist household that deeply admired the work of MLK and others. My mother completely rejected her families heritage on this issue and raised us NOT to be as her family was. We lived literally thousands of miles away and saw them at most once a year. What I describe is an event that took place in one of those visits and an awareness of how they were that I never took on as my own. I did not begin living in the south in NC until long after my views on the issue were well formed. And as I said, I never took on a racist mindset. I never used any sort of racial epithet towards black people (or jewish or mexican) never even thought about a black person using one of those terms.

But by visting and hearing them and seeing those things I did in fact witness the racism of the south in the 60's first hand.

[oxmixmudd]

And you go right back into the mud while shouting about how clean you are. That was an easy prediction, because it's your usual pattern..

Sorry, ox, but you have exchanged the truth for a lie. You're the one obsessed with skin color, not us, but the log in your eye obscures your vision.

What hubris, what gall.

At best MM I could never, ever hope to match your own capacity for mud slinging. You are the master there, and whatever comes your direction from me is only a defense wrt your own offense.

[Sparko]

Take the Arbery case. What you're saying then is that you, MM, CP etc would think it makes perfect sense to come after anyone, no matter who they are, with guns and trucks, chasing them all over the neighborhood in pursuit of a citizens arrest if they happen to stop and loiter a few minutes in a house under construction. (Notice I didn't say you think killing that person is ok, just chasing them around with guns and trucks). And that is actually more disturbing and sick in many ways. Because one can, again, lay a bit of blame on the culture around you if it's a racial thing.

You are now just burning straw in your rush to condemn others.

[Mountain Man]

I grew up north of the Mason-dixon line in a decidedly progressive and non racist household that deeply admired the work of MLK and others.

And yet elsewhere you say...

I was brought up in part in that southern racist culture. I witnessed segregation. Had school mates and friends for whom the Civil War is never over. I had relatives that were, in fact, white nationalists, people deep into the conspiracy theories...

So which is it?

In my case, I was NOT brought up in a racist culture, not even in part, I never witnessed segregation, I never knew anybody who was still fighting the Civil War, I don't have any relatives who are white nationalists -- in fact, I can't name a single person in my extended family or circle of friends and acquaintances who is racist. Frankly, racism is a foreign concept to me, and skin color is not the first thing I notice when discussing a case like this.

So, this is your problem, ox, not mine...

[Mountain Man]

What hubris, what gall.

At best MM I could never, ever hope to match your own capacity for mud slinging. You are the master there, and whatever comes your direction from me is only a defense wrt your own offense.

Right, it's everybody else's fault when you fail to live up to your own lofty standards. Typical pharisee.

[JimL]

And you go right back into the mud while shouting about how clean you are. That was an easy prediction, because it's your usual pattern.

Sorry, ox, but you have exchanged the truth for a lie. You're the one obsessed with skin color, not us, but the log in your eye obscures your vision.

"The idea that this was just some black guy out for a jog, needs to be rejected".

[Cow Poke]

What hubris, what gall.

At best MM I could never, ever hope to match your own capacity for mud slinging. You are the master there, and whatever comes your direction from me is only a defense wrt your own offense.

You're gaining on him every day, Jim.

[Mountain Man]

"The idea that this was just some black guy out for a jog, needs to be rejected".

Right. Arbery wasn't killed for "jogging while black". That's a nasty little false narrative dreamed up by recovering racists like ox, and it should be rejected like any other falsehood.

[oxmixmudd]

You're gaining on him every day, Jim.

I haven't caught you yet though.

[oxmixmudd]

You are now just burning straw in your rush to condemn others.

No I'm not. The most basic fact in the Arbery case is that the three men in Trucks with guns chasing a jogger for pausing in a house under construction was insane. Everything about it was insane, and Arbery died because it was so over the top insane.

The fundamental brain dead part of the Arbery thread is that people in that thread over and over again keep turning back to the idea that chase really was not insane after all. Post after post is devoted to exaggerating the threat of Arbery so as to make some sense out of the over the top insane chase.

So, why would anyone want to do that? Why would any sane person work so hard to justify an insane, overtly and dangerously aggressive chase of a man whose sole misdeed would be taking a break in a house under construction while jogging?

And yet that is what happened there.

So, if the reason is an unconscious culturally derived predisposition to seeing a black man as a criminal, that is bad yes. But it can be cured with reason and introspection because they already don't want to be racists and would not even think those actions made sense except for that hard to get rid of suspicion 'arbery was up to no good'

But if the people making that argument genuinely believe that someone taking a break in a house under construction justifies that sort of insane over the top response - then that is quite another thing. A thing that is just as dangerous, but much harder to fix.

[Cow Poke]

I haven't caught you yet though.

I'm the tiny dot in your rear view mirror.

[oxmixmudd]

I'm the tiny dot in your rear view mirror.

You wish. That is leonhard. IM the tiny dot in YOUR rear view mirror.