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Police guns down man after he tried to flee.

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  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    They knew he was unarmed except for the Taser he took from them.
    This is false. Brooks had a lump in his pocket which he claimed was a wad of cash, but the officers had no way of knowing that it wasn't a pistol wrapped in a handkerchief (according to myth, certain laws prevent the police from being able to search someone or compel the removal of objects unless it is readily identifiable as a weapon); also, pat-downs are not flawless, and it is not uncommon for police to miss a weapon even when you think it would be obvious.

    So what the officer knew: 1) Brooks was violent; 2) Brooks had at least one unidentified object on his person; 3) Brooks could have had a weapon that was missed during the pat-down; 4) Brooks was aiming a gun shaped weapon at the officer.

    All of that rolling around in his head, and he had literally a split second to decide whether or not to defend himself. What would you have done? Try to put yourself in the officer's shoes instead of leisurely second guessing from the comfort and safety of your computer chair.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      This is false. Brooks had a lump in his pocket which he claimed was a wad of cash, but the officers had no way of knowing that it wasn't a pistol wrapped in a handkerchief (according to myth, certain laws prevent the police from being able to search someone or compel the removal of objects unless it is readily identifiable as a weapon); also, pat-downs are not flawless, and it is not uncommon for police to miss a weapon even when you think it would be obvious.

      So what the officer knew: 1) Brooks was violent; 2) Brooks had at least one unidentified object on his person; 3) Brooks could have had a weapon that was missed during the pat-down; 4) Brooks was aiming a gun shaped weapon at the officer.

      All of that rolling around in his head, and he had literally a split second to decide whether or not to defend himself. What would you have done? Try to put yourself in the officer's shoes instead of leisurely second guessing from the comfort and safety of your computer chair.
      It is SO easy for 'armchair policemen' with ZERO experience in these issues to sit and judge this whole situation after the fact.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        This is false. Brooks had a lump in his pocket which he claimed was a wad of cash, but the officers had no way of knowing that it wasn't a pistol wrapped in a handkerchief (according to myth, certain laws prevent the police from being able to search someone or compel the removal of objects unless it is readily identifiable as a weapon); also, pat-downs are not flawless, and it is not uncommon for police to miss a weapon even when you think it would be obvious.

        So what the officer knew: 1) Brooks was violent; 2) Brooks had at least one unidentified object on his person; 3) Brooks could have had a weapon that was missed during the pat-down; 4) Brooks was aiming a gun shaped weapon at the officer.

        All of that rolling around in his head, and he had literally a split second to decide whether or not to defend himself. What would you have done? Try to put yourself in the officer's shoes instead of leisurely second guessing from the comfort and safety of your computer chair.
        I understand that if someone is pointing something at you, there is not time to contemplate what it might be. I have seen some of the training videos used ... you don't have time to do anything but react. That is why in most cases where a person points something at the officer you have to give the officer the benefit of the doubt. It has to be instantly recognizable it is not a gun or the officer must defend himself.

        OTOH, he is running AWAY. And from the video, the tasers they were using were NOT 'gun shaped' and can be CLEARLY SEEN IN BROOKS LEFT HAND AS HE RUNS AWAY. He is carrying it the whole time and it is a continuous chain of motion as he runs carrying the taser and then turns to discharge the Taser at the officer. Just look at the wendy's video. There is no reasonable way the officer did not know it was their own taser being pointed at him.

        This case just doesn't quite make it in terms of the officer believed Brooks was an imminent, deadly threat.
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          It is SO easy for 'armchair policemen' with ZERO experience in these issues to sit and judge this whole situation after the fact.
          Are you really going to try to claim there is any reason to believe the officer could have been confused about what was being pointed at him? It was bright yellow, and Brook's right hand is visible the entire time as he runs holding the bright yellow TASER. What you need is a reason it is just to kill a man pointing a TASER at you while he runs away. If that is justifiable use of deadly force, then you have a case.
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Like I said....

            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            It is SO easy for 'armchair policemen' with ZERO experience in these issues to sit and judge this whole situation after the fact.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Like I said....
              That is not an answer CP, that's just you being a donkey's rear end.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                I understand that if someone is pointing something at you, there is not time to contemplate what it might be. I have seen some of the training videos used ... you don't have time to do anything but react. That is why in most cases where a person points something at the officer you have to give the officer the benefit of the doubt. It has to be instantly recognizable it is not a gun or the officer must defend himself.

                OTOH, he is running AWAY. And from the video, the tasers they were using were NOT 'gun shaped' and can be CLEARLY SEEN IN BROOKS LEFT HAND AS HE RUNS AWAY. He is carrying it the whole time and it is a continuous chain of motion as he runs carrying the taser and then turns to discharge the Taser at the officer. Just look at the wendy's video. There is no reasonable way the officer did not know it was their own taser being pointed at him.

                This case just doesn't quite make it in terms of the officer believed Brooks was an imminent, deadly threat.
                BS! Running away, and running away while pointing a GUN SHAPED object and firing it at an officer are NOT the same thing. The fact that you are trying to excuse this dangerous and violent behavior as perfectly normal tells me a lot.
                "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                Comment


                • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  Are you really going to try to claim there is any reason to believe the officer could have been confused about what was being pointed at him? It was bright yellow, and Brook's right hand is visible the entire time as he runs holding the bright yellow TASER. What you need is a reason it is just to kill a man pointing a TASER at you while he runs away. If that is justifiable use of deadly force, then you have a case.
                  Yes, that's exactly what we're saying. You have the luxury of viewing video from the side, not pointed straight at you. Brooks assaulted officers, and tried to escape by force while pointing and shooting at them. His death is on him. If he doesn't do any of that, he is still alive.
                  "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                  "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                    Yes, that's exactly what we're saying. You have the luxury of viewing video from the side, not pointed straight at you. Brooks assaulted officers, and tried to escape by force while pointing and shooting at them. His death is on him. If he doesn't do any of that, he is still alive.
                    This is nowhere near like the clear cut case of George Floyd --- regardless of what Floyd had done, I don't know of a single person who says this was justified. The case against Brooks is far more muddled.

                    The notion that the officer saw a bright shiny, nearly blinding, yellow 'something' aimed at him is preposterous.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                      BS! Running away, and running away while pointing a GUN SHAPED object and firing it at an officer are NOT the same thing. The fact that you are trying to excuse this dangerous and violent behavior as perfectly normal tells me a lot.
                      The deceased also took the tazer from the officer, so the officer knew exactly what it was. He was also searched for weapons already, so the officer knew exactly what it was. He also had already fired the tazer, so the officer knew exactly what it was. So the officer was left with two options, being that he has all his information, let him go and pick him up later, or shoot and kill the man over a DUI charge.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        The deceased also took the tazer from the officer, so the officer knew exactly what it was. He was also searched for weapons already, so the officer knew exactly what it was. He also had already fired the tazer, so the officer knew exactly what it was. So the officer was left with two options, being that he has all his information, let him go and pick him up later, or shoot and kill the man over a DUI charge.
                        Idiocy at it's finest. Do you know how hard it is sometimes to find someone out on Parole? He was on parole for a violent crime (beating his own children), he violated that parole condition by getting drunk and driving, then by assaulting an officer. How do you know the officer knew he took his taser? The one who shot him isn't the one who lost the taser. The officer who shot him was trying to use his taser...therefore, he couldn't have known for certain it was a tazer.
                        I posted this earlier: There's no way the officers didn't know that he was out of prison on parole for an assault charge. The arrest instead of letting him go is because of that fact. He had violated the terms and conditions that allowed him to be free. He knew that the instant they tried to arrest him that he would be sent back to prison for violating his parole agreement. Saying that they could let him go and pick him up later ignores the fact that parolee's skip town all the time and hope they don't get caught. He had a choice to live and fight his revocation in court or to fight the officers and run and foolishly threaten an armed officer. He chose poorly.
                        "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                        "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          I understand that if someone is pointing something at you, there is not time to contemplate what it might be. I have seen some of the training videos used ... you don't have time to do anything but react. That is why in most cases where a person points something at the officer you have to give the officer the benefit of the doubt. It has to be instantly recognizable it is not a gun or the officer must defend himself.

                          OTOH, he is running AWAY. And from the video, the tasers they were using were NOT 'gun shaped' and can be CLEARLY SEEN IN BROOKS LEFT HAND AS HE RUNS AWAY. He is carrying it the whole time and it is a continuous chain of motion as he runs carrying the taser and then turns to discharge the Taser at the officer. Just look at the wendy's video. There is no reasonable way the officer did not know it was their own taser being pointed at him.

                          This case just doesn't quite make it in terms of the officer believed Brooks was an imminent, deadly threat.
                          The taser is clearly gun shaped. I don't know why you would dispute this.

                          As for whether or not it was clear to the officer that the suspect was carrying only the taser, that's impossible to say from the security camera video. What you can see leisurely watching videos from multiple angles in the safety and comfort of your home is not what the cop saw. Was he even aware that Brooks had taken the taser, or that he still had it with him when he started running? How did he know Brooks hadn't discarded the taser without his seeing it and drawn a second weapon?

                          It's so easy to second guess when you're not the one chasing a violent suspect who suddenly aims a weapon at you. And this is why I hope you're never called for jury duty in a case like this, because you seem to find it impossible to look at things objectively and let your emotions take over.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            The taser is clearly gun shaped. I don't know why you would dispute this.

                            As for whether or not it was clear to the officer that the suspect was carrying only the taser, that's impossible to say from the security camera video. What you can see leisurely watching videos from multiple angles in the safety and comfort of your home is not what the cop saw. Was he even aware that Brooks had taken the taser, or that he still had it with him when he started running? How did he know Brooks hadn't discarded the taser without his seeing it and drawn a second weapon?

                            It's so easy to second guess when you're not the one chasing a violent suspect who suddenly aims a weapon at you. And this is why I hope you're never called for jury duty in a case like this, because you seem to find it impossible to look at things objectively and let your emotions take over.
                            Right....^^^this! The officer who shot him wasn't the one who lost his taser, therefore, it should be obvious to everyone that he could not know for certain it was a taser.
                            "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                            "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              The taser is clearly gun shaped. I don't know why you would dispute this.

                              As for whether or not it was clear to the officer that the suspect was carrying only the taser, that's impossible to say from the security camera video. What you can see leisurely watching videos from multiple angles in the safety and comfort of your home is not what the cop saw. Was he even aware that Brooks had taken the taser, or that he still had it with him when he started running? How did he know Brooks hadn't discarded the taser without his seeing it and drawn a second weapon?

                              It's so easy to second guess when you're not the one chasing a violent suspect who suddenly aims a weapon at you. And this is why I hope you're never called for jury duty in a case like this, because you seem to find it impossible to look at things objectively and let your emotions take over.
                              This is one of those things where if you can play this game all day. In the end, another human life was lost here - unnecessarily. In the end, he was not a deadly threat to these officers or anyone else. And That is not trivial, and I do not believe it was a necessary use of deadly force. I can respect that if the officer actually thought Brooks was pointing a gun at him he had to fire. But I also believe he's going to have a very hard time convincing anyone except people biased against brooks that is a reasonable claim based on how clear it was he was carrying a taser, not a gun. You are clearly one of those people.

                              I believe that in the end, we can't just put ourselves in the policeman's shoes or Brook's shoes, we need to do BOTH. My opinion is not based on disregarding the difficult position any policeman is in of they believe the person they are dealing with is pointing a gun. But I don't see how in this case he could have been confused about what he was carrying.

                              You are clearly only considering the policeman's situation and giving him more than a reasonable doubt. The fact this black man was killed seems of marginal consequence to you, just as it was in the Arbery thread.

                              So we have had 3 conversations on 3 situations like this over the last couple of months. You were unreasonably biased against the black man every single time. As were others here.

                              And I am quite sure that when the next one comes along, that will remain the case.
                              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-25-2020, 12:14 PM.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                                Idiocy at it's finest. Do you know how hard it is sometimes to find someone out on Parole? He was on parole for a violent crime (beating his own children), he violated that parole condition by getting drunk and driving, then by assaulting an officer. How do you know the officer knew he took his taser? The one who shot him isn't the one who lost the taser. The officer who shot him was trying to use his taser...therefore, he couldn't have known for certain it was a tazer.
                                I posted this earlier: There's no way the officers didn't know that he was out of prison on parole for an assault charge. The arrest instead of letting him go is because of that fact. He had violated the terms and conditions that allowed him to be free. He knew that the instant they tried to arrest him that he would be sent back to prison for violating his parole agreement. Saying that they could let him go and pick him up later ignores the fact that parolee's skip town all the time and hope they don't get caught. He had a choice to live and fight his revocation in court or to fight the officers and run and foolishly threaten an armed officer. He chose poorly.
                                From my understanding he wasn't out on parole but was one of those released when they let a bunch of prisoners out of jail due to the Chicom coronavirus.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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